Can you help me to stop judging parents of possibly autistic child?

[Forprivacyreasons]

I have changed my name for this as it would be awful if for some reason the child's mum is a mumsnetter - its probably quite easy to work out who I am if you know me but please don't say. There is a child in dd2's nursery class who I am sure may be autistic - she has NO communication - never makes eye contact, screams and talks unintelligbly, during the nativity play she wandered about seeming unaware of what was going on. She came for tea yesterday as dd2 likes her - they didn't play together at all, she absolutely does not communicate at all but is brill at puzzles and loved running about in the garden. Her mum says that she has had various 'experts' try to 'put her in a box' but she feels that she is just wilful and by reception will be fine. Her dh is a very gruff bloke who absolutely refuses to believe there is anything wrong with his dd. She seems to be a very happy child but it is clear there is something very profoundly different about her.

I really have to overcome an urge to say to the parents 'stop pretending everything is going to be fine and GET HER SOME HElP' and I really wish I could just butt out. Which I do obviously. Will she be OK?

I doubt she'll be fine without any help. I really didin't want to believe that my ds was autistic but when it's smacking you in the face, it's hard to take in.
She does need to be assessed at least because it may not be autism, could be development delays, dyspraxia etc.
Maybe talk to the mum and ask why she is so reluctant to seek help. Getting a diagnosis can take a while and she could be setting her dd up for a long hard battle.
It may be fear, guilt, anger etc at the possiblility that her dd is not going to be 'normal' (I hate that word) but that is a normal reaction.
Sorry I can't be more help but I can't understand why she doesn't want to do everything she can for her dd.

Maybe it's because she's at that stage where 'it's smacking you in the face so it's hard to take in'? Not being flippant SPC , but I suspect dipping her head in the sand feels like the safest place to be right now.

Difficult one FPR, I'd proceed cautiously, maybe broach with her what the experts had said? Just out of interest, do you have a child with SN?

Very true! I'd forgotten what it's like to be at that stage. I'm well in to the deal with whatever comes along stage. Haven't fully got to acceptance yet but I'm getting there.

hmmm hard one. dd2 is so different to her pears it does smack you in the face a bit, and tbhy i dont mention it to other parents, i just say she is a bit different. they have heard her scrweeching running, wandering off in dazed way. the 'experts' cant dx as she is just so strange, not classic i na anyway, tbh i think she is possibly somewhere on AS/dyspraxia/borderline ADHD line myself. she doesnt plaqy well with other children but does do puzzles brilliantly. if dd2 had been at a friends house yesterday i would've though you were talking about her

no I dont chonky.

I am very aware that the mum must be a bit in denial. The family is very 'hearty' with three older boys who are all very hunting, shooting and fishing. I can't help feeling an autistic dd would be a real problem to them.

I am cross with dd2's nursery teacher - a friend of mine broached the subject and the teacher said 'oh every child has special needs, your child has trouble writing, (Forprivacyreasons) child cannot ride a bike, Anna (not her real name) has communication difficulties'

I dont know whether thats an admirable or stupid attitude to take.

fairytale thats why I changed my name (would hate to think the mother knows I am talking about her) - your dd sounds v similar to 'Anna' (who is a lovely child btw and I have quite taken to her in a clucking motherly way)

my dd2 does talk, but its interspaced with screeches and grunts.

I have 2 other children, and the difference between the 22month and dd2 is so so in your face really. dd3 does imitation, plays well,s points, babbles etc, al lthe things that dd2 seemed to miss out.

How well do you know the mum FPR? I think I'd be very cautious of mentioning 'ASD' initially - I can remember being HU-UGELY upset when a 'gran' from dd's SEN school saw fit to try and dx her! I'm not suggesting that you'd do that btw, just agreeing with you that it is a potential minefield. Can you discuss the communication problems maybe, and ask whether they have managed to access a SALT for her?

I dont know her well enough -would never dream of mentioning it

she has told me that she has spent the last 18 months avoiding all playdates/parties etc but has decided to 'go for it' and just treat 'Anna' as though she were any other chlid. I think thats great (I think...) and will just observe and be quietly supportive.

oh yes, do not metion ASD or anything. DD2 pre-school teacher told me outright she thought DD2 was autistic, but a year on we still have no diagnosis. we do have SALT sessions, and she has seen a physio and OT. but no dx. I have always known dd2 is 'different' (santaspersonalclown wil lagree with me) but hearing it from someone else hurt a lot and i did cry my heart out in the car.

yes I can imagine

I always suspected dd1 had mild dyslexia/dyspraxia - we have been getting her private tuition because of this, when the tutor casually confirmed it I was gutted

(not the same I know but same sort of emotion)

I can really understand the parental attitude, tbh.

As some of you know my DS1 (now 7) has a dx of HFA but he's been doing very very well in mainstream and most people I think reckon I'm some sort of crank when I tell them about his dx!

It's become clearer and clearer this year that DS3 (now 2.4) is almost certainly somewhere on the autistic spectrum, but because he was pointing and had a few words when he was 1, I had convinced myself that he was okay and I think have been very heavily in denial all this year. It's only now that we've finally bitten the bullet and had him referred that the scales have fallen from my eyes and I can see how odd his behaviour is compared to that of other two-year olds.

i think it is really. i am gearing up for dd1 being dyslexic, and i know when its vocalised eventually, it will hurt as well. she is on IEP at school and spennds 30mins a day with the SENCo working on her sounds, reading and writing.

It's a tough one, isn't it? It may be that as she is their first dd that they think the differences between her and her brothers are due to her being a girl.

I think the nursery staff should be taking this a little more seriously tbh. Presumably the dd is now 3 or 4? Not communicating at all at this age should set alarm bells ringing. OTOH perhaps they wouldn't tell other parents what was happening behind the scenes anyway, due to confidentiality etc. I don't think the other parents know much at all (if anything) about what is happening with ds2 (ASD).The staff should at least have the SENCO involved by now.

If 'experts' have spoken to her in the past then obviously someone else has noticed along the way. I'm not sure what, if anything, anyone can do if the parents are in denial.

YOU may just not be privy to wahat is going on tbh. When I was concerned about ds1 there were a few people I talked to, others not at all.

The nursery sound like they may be takingit on board if they said communication difficulties- it would be wrong of them to say much more tbh.

Sorry type this in a lecture earlier so only had half my attention.

She may be being assessed in which case iit may be that the mum just doesn't want to talk about it. I was like this with ds1, except with my very best friends (with whom I would talk very openly, everyone else I would just say "oh he's fine" and change the subject).

Nursery should not pass on any information to other parents. if they've said she has trouble communicating, it may well be that people like pre-school advisory ARE involved.

IN terms of getting a diagnosis, I suspected autism from 17 months, we actively seeked diagnosis which didn't come until ds1 was gone 3. Had we sat on our backsides and done nothing he would have been diagnosed at exactly the same time, and would have receieved exactly the same interventions. The only "extra" help he got from us pushing was all paid for by us, which you cannot force people to do. Once she enters the system (which she will if she reaches 3 and cannot talk at all) then whether or not a parent is switched on will make very little difference.

If a child is high functioning then it can make more of a difference in terms of needing a pushy parents to get a dx, and at school age it is essential to ensure a statement (and one that is worth something). But at nursery it probably won't make that much difference unless the parents are prepared to go out and set up some sort of home program. Early intevention is talked about a lot, but doesn't really exist in the UK yet.

seeked? sought?

still not sure it sounds right- what I mean is being switched on will make very little difference to the help the girl will receive from the State. That isn't so true at school age- then it is worth being switched on.

Most fathers (ime) refuse to believe there is anything wrong with their child. It can make it very hard for the mother (even my very wonderful dh, who is now very switched on about autism, and very proud and protective of ds1, and very at ease with him, would not have that there was anything wrong- I had to hide all my autism books under the matress). If she's saying things about eople trying to pigeonhole her dd then my guess is that she knows something is up. If you know of anyone else with a child with SN I would just introduce them to each other (in a roundabout way). Probably the best help you could give.

Thanks jimjams that is very interesting. of course I don't know the whole story and I have to keep reminding myself of that! Stupid really.

She is 4 - the thing that worries me is that her mum seems to really believe that her problems are 'just anna' and that by reception she will be 'sorted out'. It is a private school - don't know whether that means you can bypass the 'system'?

The nursery teacher is staggeringly indiscreet I think - she talks openly about how 'challenging' 'Anna' is and how she cannot concentrate on the others - (this was said when I asked whether dd2 could have a bit of extra writing practice!) Mind you she tells other parents that my dd2 has 'special needs' as she cannot ride a bike fgs.

Dd2 is out of there next September anyway but I can't help feeling that Anna is not going to get good support there. Rich parents though so...

i am not going to say anything fio - dont worry! Just judging them in my head!

If she really does have ASD then I doubt she'll surive the private school system and will be moved on. Unless she's very high functioning in which case the small classes etc may be exactly what she needs and she may thrive in wich case a dx isn't so important right away.

If she isn't high functioning or if she is challenging then I suspect she'll be expelled or (preferably) brought into the system via the school.

I wouldn't be too hard on her (even in your head). You yourself said were gutted to have it confirmed that dd1 had mild dyslexia/dyspraxia- imagine having to come to terms with a condition that means your child will probably never be able to live independently. (in a recent NAS survey of people across the spectrum- including AS, something hideous like only 2% lived independelty). It's an awful lot to take on board.

Did you watch that Autism Every Day film? It shows autism in young children (so might give you a confirmation of your hunch iyswim), but also shows how much people have to take on board.