Exclusion at 5 years old?

[reliantrobin]

Hello all,

Continuing problems with my DS in reception I'm afraid.

DS is v strong willed and defiant when he is forced to conform at school. He was sent home last week after hitting the headteacher.

We are waiting for an appointment for DS to be assessed - it is suspected that he has AS.

My question is this - are the school entitled to exclude him if he does this again? It may be some time before the assessment and I really don't think that a long break from school would be at all helpful.

Thanks

IPSEA can advise you in this regard and I would suggest you have a look at their website which is www.ipsea.org.uk. There is a section in there on exclusions.

Any chance of speaking to these people re DS's future assessment to see if the appointment can be moved forward, sometimes cancellations can crop up.

Have you heard anything from the LEA yet regarding your Statement request?.

Thanks ladies.

Attila - I haven't applied for a statement yet as no formal diagnosis. The school has now sent a letter to our local child development centre asking for an appointment asap - with any luck this should result in an assessment in the next few weeks.

I'm hoping this will give us enough time to get the necessary help by year 1 - this term has so far been a nightmare.

In my experience I think yes he can be excluded if he does it again. Could u not make an appointment to see headteacher and explain that you know its wrong behaviour but u do not feel that he is benefitting from being sent home. Have they tried a behaviour chart with him, what had led him to hit the headteacher. Speak to the Special needs person at school and try and get them on yr side. Not wanting to worry u but if he continues to hit teachers after he has been sent home a fair few times it may go to a gov meeting to see if he should be removed from school. Are behaviour support involved, if not could u contact them. Does he behave like this at home?

Hi Reliantrobin
my ds2 with DX of HF/AS was informally excluded 2 times in year 1 (before he got his statement) as a result of biting and scratching other children.

Imformal exclusions are not really allowed, the school should really do it formally, where they write to you and the LEA, or not do it at all. However head teachers often ask you to keep your child off school in an imformal way.

Although your child has some legal rights under the disability act, the school also has rights under the health and saftey act.

You can get advice on exclusions for ACE advisory centre for education (ask for their exclusions pack) tel 0845 6022260

If you can meet with the headteacher and talk you may be able to sort it out.

One thing that did help however, was that we were then put on the risk of permenant exclusion list, by the autism team which really helped when it came to getting our statement.

I really really feel for you, as I had two whole terms at school worrying that I was going to get a phone call and that DS would do something dreadful to another child. It is a really difficult situation.

Now we have a statement with a full time TA things are much better and we are not having these sort of problems at the moment.

my Ds is now 6 and has had a full statement since he was 3. he has good provision for support (whether or not the school make full use of that provision is a whole other thread) but he has been excluded time and time again.

He also has ASD and finds the confines of school difficult to deal with at times and becomes aggressive.
some times he just gets sent home and returns the next day, others he misses a day and others he has been sent hom not to return for a week.

its not a very good strategy and it solves nothing as DS doesnt even understand why he has been sent home or why his routine has been changed....all it does is cause him to be even more disruptive when he returns.

i dont think exclusions help children with ASD but i think the school are within their rights to use it as a form of punishment.
when i had a discussion about it with our head she said that they were resorting to excludinghim as a way of maybe getting extra support...if he keeps being excluded the LEA must reaslise that the school arent coping.

i would go into school and speak with the teacher, SENCO and head about what they are putting in place to help with your DS, what strategies they have for dealing with a meltdown etc.

i hope the assesment helps things for you

Reliantrobin, did the school give you a formal letter when your child was excluded from school? Every exclusion from school, no matter how short, has to be put in writing. If they have not done so, ask for one. Do not be fobbed off with it being an informal one for his own good.

It is important that exclusions are formally reported because if they are not, then the LEA and other professionals do not know the true extent of how much help and support your child may need at school. The school must have procedures in place to help your child and if they can get away with "informally" excluding your child they will do, as it does not show that they are not coping. More importantly, it will delay the help and support your child needs in the classroom.

Here is the official legal jargon from the DeFS website. The bold bits are bits I have highlighted.

Unofficial exclusions

22. If a head teacher is satisfied that, on the balance of probabilities, a pupil has committed a disciplinary offence and needs to be removed from the school site for that reason, formal exclusion is the only legal method of removal. Informal or unofficial exclusions are illegal regardless of whether they are done with the agreement of parents or carers.

23. Where a pupil is sent home for disciplinary reasons for part of a school day, some head teachers have viewed this as a 'cooling off' period, and have not taken action to exclude the pupil formally. There is no basis in law for this. The relevant regulations do not state a minimum length of exclusion. If pupils are sent home in response to a breach of discipline, even for short periods of time, this must be formally recorded as an exclusion.

24. In every instance where a pupil is sent home for disciplinary reasons, head teachers should formally record and specify the length of the exclusion (for reporting purposes this should be recorded as a half day, whole day or lunchtime). They should ensure that:

They are meeting their legal duty of care towards pupils, providing appropriate supervision whilst on site, and ensuring parents are formally notified if a pupil needs to be removed from site;
Child protection issues are taken into account; and
Pupils' human right to education is not contravened.

Revised guidance on good practice in preventing unofficial exclusions is available at the Exclusions and Alternative Provision area of the DfES website.

Hi reliantrobin - you don't need to wait for a diagnosis before applying for a statement; I would recommend you do this asap.

Would you be able to work out a way of your son being in school for short periods of time instead of full days, for a while? My DS2 went in for short sessions, then gradually built the time up, as he found school so stressful.

He also had a PECS chart, as he liked to know exactly what was going to happen, and when. He relied greatly on routine, and the school hadn't realised how much changes in routine affected him.

We also managed to get some support for DS2 in the playground, as he found socialising very difficult. A classroom assistant would help him to instigate a ball game, or let DS2 and a few other children stay in the classroom to play a board game, as he couldn't cope well with lots of loud noise.

I was told by the headteacher that the automatic exclusion of a child for being physical with a teacher did not apply to children with special needs.

Reporting these incidents to the LEA for a child without support is a positive step though, as it means they are not flying below the radar, and it should flag up the need for support for the child.

The assessment with the Ed Psych should be a positive step too.

Good luck - and keep posting - you are not alone with these experiences.

I know a boy who was excluded for hittiing his teacher aged 5 (he went onto get an AS dx). I also know a boy of 9 given a dx of AS then promptly excluded. Is he being statemented (actually I need to read the thread don't I).

I'm really grateful for all your replies - and to know that we are not the only ones dealing with this sort of thing!

Just to clarify, we weren't given a formal letter lask week - the head was very careful to avoid the "e" word. I was very interested to see your post on that, roundthebend.

I really feel quite at sea at the moment. It seems that I have stumbled into a world where everyone else is speaking in acronyms and obscure terminology!

Anyway - I had a positive meeting today with the school SENCO. The school is going to apply for "emergency hours" support for DS to cover him until the ed psych review. This should take the form of 1-1 support to try and avoid any meltdowns.

They have also arranged for some special training for the staff to manage him if he becomes aggressive/violent. I have been invited to attend - whilst we don't normally have such severe problems with DS at home the tips on defusing a situation may come in handy.

I just wish that I could wake up and everything would be OK. I dread the phone ringing at the mo for fear of the school asking me to remove him again...

Poor you. My DD was excluded for the remainder of the day 3 times when she was in Year 3. Once she had her hands round another child's neck tight enough to cause red marks, the other times she hit her LSA. It was a formal exclusion but the Head was always at pains to point out to me that she did it to show that such behaviour was not acceptable and to support her staff. It does make you feel absolutely dreadful though. It sounds as if the school are now making efforts to ensure the right support is in place, so it looks promising for the future.

Hi Reliantrobin
I agree with everyone who advises that you get some kind of dx for your son.
Have been through much of what you descibe with DS1 though he is now 9 and in year 5. He didn't have any officially allocated TA support until Y3(and though rarely excluded spent many hours in the headteachers office in y1, which he was delighted with because it was quiet and he could read and draw, he was in his element really, y2 very good teacher who was completly on the ball, y3 and 4 horrific) and it started with just 5 hours a week which was woefully inadequate, he now gets 20 hours. he has been excluded (both times were unofficial!) twice this term both times his TA support wasn't available! The meltdowns were biggies - throwing chairs etc though not directed at anyone in particular.
Though this sounds dreadful, things have come a long way and he does enjoy schooland is actually learning something.
The thing we'd really like and will keep pushing for is that all his teachers and TAs have proper training in working with ASD kids as the consequences otherwise can be disasterous. Push for this with your son if he gets a dx.

On a lighter note he spent much of this morning in the headteachers office (ok so that bit isn't light) because he took it upon himself to 'direct' the christmas performance (rehersals) unfortunately he insisted that several ofthecast stand very close to the edge of the stage[fshoc]

Well, DS had a good day yesterday, followed by a difficult day today.

Is this good day/bad day pattern common in AS children? On some days I think "Oh DS is just fine" and other days like today I despair of him ever fitting into school.

And another thing...do you ever get less affected by all of this? After each bad day I just want to put my head in my hands and sob - do you develop a magic thicker skin after a while?

Hi RR, my ds has good and bad days like yours. I have not really been able to identify any pattern but I have noticed that things are particularly difficult in the first term of the new year as he takes a long while to adopt to a new teacher.

I think now I know he is AS that has helped me cope with his behaviour/problems. I know where he is coming from and don't have unrealistic expectations of him. In the old days I got so frustrated and angry when I was told by the teacher that he had had another meltdown. In fact it made me feel like having a meltdown as well!!!

I have orderered a book from the NAS called when my worries get too big for me. DS has found this simple book very helpful and seems to be able to relate to what it says (simple cognitive behavourial suggestions as to how to cope when you are about to have a meltdown.

Hi Reliantrobin
sorry to hear you have had a bad day.

I also have good and bad days, if DS is tired we often have bad days, also the nearer we get to the end of term is always a problem, as the routines always change, as the teachers wind down or like at the moment, spend lots of time getting ready for the christmas concert.

I definately have those days when everything goes well and I think DS is fine, all is going to be OK, he fits in and copes really well, and I start to think does he really have an ASD.....but I always come back to earth in the end, as something always happens that makes me know that he is different from his NT peers.

I have only had his DX for 18months and it really does take so much time to fully accept, that this is a lifelong journey we are on.

However, we do have lovely times and DS is an absolute treasure, I am learning all the time to live with and accept the difficult bits and enjoy all the other bits, so to speak.

What has really helped me has been meeting other parents in the same boat and talking about the same type of worries, do you have a local NAS branch?

We have also started going to a computer club for children with AS, do you have anything like that near you?