Speech disordered? 2yr old Poss ASD

[OdoItal]

DD is youngest of 6 (only girl!) most of brothers have forms of ASD. She is just over 2yrs old and still has only around 4 words.

However she does seem to speak a couple of phrases. "wheres he gone?" "there you are" "I see you" "he did it"

She also seems to understand basic requests "get your coat/shoes" "get down" etc. Dont know if thats because of situation...

I dont think she understands nouns. Been teaching her "eyes, ears, nose, mouth" for a couple of months and she still gets them mixed up.

Is learning phrases rather than specific nouns a typical thing with ASD kids? didnt really notice the others doing it... but maybe im more on the ball this time around?

Yes it is common in children with ASD. It could also be a speech disorder going on too.

Sounding like it could be echolalia. DS2 has autism and Specific Language Impairment - receptive and expressive. At 2, he lost language rather than gained. He has SALT since he was 4 and at 11 doesn't shut up. But I remember a time when he didn't understand "no". The earlier intervention the better; at his last assessments, an external SALT said he was proof SALT works.

DC1 did that (she has Asd). not too sure of DC2 (NT) did that. but it was a thing a noticed early on with DC1.

in any case, with issues with understanding, having limited vocabulary and a family history of Asd, I would probably get the ball rolling re Salt and paed.

op, have you looked at the M-chat?

thanks for replies :)
I have looked at the M-chat - she scored anywhere between 8-11

Many of the questions were a bit hit and miss - yes i suppose in essence she does "pretend", however its always the same pretence with the same object, same scenario (is that imagination or just a learned response?), no she doesnt point - but she does hold her hand out in vaguely correct direction. Not much joint attention as such, many occasions im just a tool (but not ALL occasions). no 'finger movements near eyes' but she does a LOT of hand flapping when stressed/excited. yes she is interested in children, but would rather not get too close to them or associate in any way (they're ok at a distance). eye contact/copying/answering to name all hit and miss. hence the variable scores...

I self referred for SALT at 18mths but was told she was fine (she had already lost animal noises and the half dozen words she could manage) and was discharged. She is now on the waiting list again.

CHOCNOMORE Didnt realise i could get paed involved... how do i go about that? HV was brill at 2yr check and not only did she listen she believed me too!

FIRSTTHEYIGNOREYOU DS5 had SALT for about 6yrs - he didnt speak until he was around 6yrs - hes almost 9yrs now and doesnt shut up!!!

ask HV or GP for a referral to a developmental paed. you might have to be insistent.

Iirc, 8 points and above with the m-chat indicates a 'high risk'. certainly mention it or print out the test you did. don't take no for an answer. A regression is a pretty red flag and they shouldn't fob you off.

good luck.

thanks choc, will do

though can i ask what the difference is between all the paeds? DS4 and DS5 have just been transferred from a consultant paed (or general paed possibly) to a 'community' paed. (one with AS, other with ASD and waiting on ADHD dx). Is a developmental one another type too?

not sure what a community paed is.

a developmental paed is a paed who specialises in child development and developmental disorders. HTH

who diagnosed your other DC? how old were they?

DS1 dx ADHD, long battle, aged 9. (Sheffield Ryegate centre, HV, GP). DS2 UnDx'd ASD. DS3 dyspraxic. DS4 dx AS aged 7 (18mths start to finish, direct referral from GP to Ryegate) DS5 complex Dx Autism, Brain injury, hypermobility, all round general cheeky chappy (gp @3mths, Paed from 9mths, Mri @ 2.5yrs, gp referral to ryegate at 7yrs).

we havent lived in sheffield since first dx, but neighbouring city. But got a compliant GP

Here, only a community paed can DX ADHD - which school (mainstream at the moment) have requested for DS5. Ive known for years hes had it - because of DS1 symptoms. cant be bothered to ask for ryegate AGAIN for another label.

A friend here is having to jump through hoops (and cahms, parenting courses, the lot) for Dx, because she only has one with ASD, although its glaringly obvious what her DD's issues are! And another friend got a Dx for her son within 10days because school arranged it all! very hit and miss here

Odo - that kind of sums up the SEN-experience, flaming random .

Given all your experience, what do you think will help DD? I'm thinking SALT, so you will need everyone on board but given the family history that is "easier" to achieve.

Ryegate seems to be default - it could be they are the only service available locally and labels can get you access to services, so it might be worth going back there, too.

Your description of DD is very similar to how I would have described DS2 at her age. He is atypically autistic - with sensory issues, specific learning difficulties and very high anxiety but not the obsessional side: apart from tech, of course. Oh, and he has dyspraxia.

Your experience with DD will be different, simply because she is herself: her own profile of strengths and weaknesses and if she is on the spectrum, there is a huge variety on there - life's continuum. If she was a friend's child, what would you be suggesting they do?

community paed or dev. paed - they must have some paed who deals with developmental issues. ask your HV/GP and get referred. with the high m-chat score, regression and family history they should take you seriously.

you said HV believed you whem you saw her fir the 2 year check up. what was the redult of that. she surely shouldn't hVe left it to believing you. did she not put referrals in place?

First - We only got referral to ryegate because i knew who to ask, and what to ask for because of dealings with DS1. No-one else round here has even heard of it. They get referred to cahms (eventually) and parenting courses. (although some parents round here ACTUALLY DO NEED IT! i heard one mum say "gi'ore wi that autisticy retard s*!& " I was stunned. no wonder its difficult here with that kind of attitude ) I think DD would benefit from ongoing SALT, and Dx/assessment around school age - mainly because getting a dx before then is very difficult and just results in mum being labelled neurotic. then see how it goes at school, whatever help she may need then. I think salt now, because i dont want her playing catchup as soon as she gets in school.

Choc - Hv has referred for SALT and stated that she will refer to paed when/if she needs it later for school. Im not sure a paed can do anything for her at this point anyway can they?

DD already has a dietician for her CF/GF diet which she does really well on.

my DD was dx at 3. An early dx meant she started school a statement of SEN (would have never coped without).Dx helped with our DLA application (in theory DLA is based on need but a dx does help). we use the money to pay for private therapy.

I don't see the benefit of wait and see how the child copes at school.

nobody will dx autism if she does not have it but if she does then a dx will enable you to access better support.

I definately see your point Choc. If you can see a whoops coming, then try and avoid it.

I think because i saw DS5 in such a terrible state (he looked profoundly autistic, but with many hundreds of "mum hours" and professional help and good diet -gf/cf- ) he has made near miraculous advances - he is at a point now at only 8yrs that i thought he may never get to. but that it possibly skews my view.

I see DD, and she does very typical ASD behaviour, but she is very 'able' and think to myself that shes not as badly affected as DS was and may be just fine with a little understanding from the teachers.

It is all relative, isn't it? It is a good perspective to have .

Is ongoing salt a possibility, as in, does it exist by you? Is the school your boys at good?

Ongoing SALT, if you can get into the system, is a possibility, they tend to do blocks of 6wks here (1 or half hour per week) then a 6-8wks rest with homework to do. reassess at each new block to find bits lacking. It worked well with all my others (3 of my 6 children have used this system and progressed well).

As for the school - the teaching staff are good on the whole, please see thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs/2354103-EHCP-school-seem-willing-but-not-sure for the school that her next older brother is in.

So, SALT, sorted or on way - good . It is when there is very little or none available that the fight gets really tough.

Hmmm about the school: actually, sounds like they do provide a lot without a statement. Know what you mean about the system stonewalling - such hard work. From what you said earlier, DD may be OK there. Given what you already know, go with your instinct: it sounds like you get it right.

the thing is, without Ehcp, your totally depend on the mercy of the school. no support is guaranteed. you still have time until school but if things don't pick up a lot,then I would get the ball rolling myself.

If this is something you can do, don't hang around waiting for others. It took me 1.5 years to get Dd's statement sorted. thank godness we appied when she was still young.