any advice on how to tackle one of many problems at school?

[cameorole]

Please can anyone offer me some advice? My DS (almost 5) is finding school very difficult and I don't know what to do next.

Some background: the staff at his first nursery flagged the possibility of ASD when he was 2.5. At the time I was surprised because he seemed confident, chatty and very happy. But then he became increasingly anxious (especially about seemingly random things like road signs and arrows and Justin Fletcher) and when we moved to a different city this escalated to the point that leaving the house was a nightmare. At his new nursery they also suggested possible ASD and this theory was supported by a visiting independent SENCo. We now have regular meetings with the school SENCo but nothing seems to have changed. Our appointment with the community paediatrician last year was a disaster and in the letter they sent us they said they would reassess a year later and that his behaviour was "controlling", which made me feel that actually it's all down to bad parenting on my part.

One of the many problems he has at school is that he is terrified of being pushed so he constantly shadows the teachers on playground duty. In the last week he was in tears three days in a row after being told by a teacher to stop following her. He is particularly terrified of a sweet little boy who has delayed language and shows his affection by shoving and pushing. DS finds his mere presence very unsettling (partly because at nursery there was a boy with very aggressive behaviour who made his time there quite miserable). What can I do to make the school aware that DS's worry about being pushed is real and not just a demand for attention or a failing of some kind? Of course the situation with the "pushing" boy (as he calls him) can't be changed but how can I persuade my DS that being given the occasional shove or push is not the end of the world?

There are all sorts of other things that make his school life an unhappy one but this is one of the main ones and I thought it best to tackle them one at a time.

Has anyone had any similar experiences?

How many children are in the playground at breaks? It can be incredibly overwhelming for some children. You could perhaps ask that he be given access to a playtime with smaller numbers of children (this has worked very well for a little boy I know of the same age) and second that an adult teaches him how to play with others so some structured time at playtimes. My ds's went to a lunchtime club, for example, some of the time where there was only a maximum of 12 children and 2 adult supporters to intervene when things went wrong.

Children do get very controlling when they are anxious as it is a desperate attempt to feel safe in their environment. It is very little nothing to do with bad parenting.

Ask the school to refer you to the Community Paediatrician. You say you've moved cities, so hopefully you'll see someone with more awareness this time.
Also, arrange a meeting with the class teacher and SENCo and see how you can all support him together at school. Good communication between home and school makes such a difference.

Thanks, oneineight, I'll ask about those options when i speak to the SENCo next term. I think they have already tried successfully to involve him in group games organised by older (and therefore more predictable!) children but his anxiety about being pushed is so overwhelming that he can only be distracted from it for a few minutes. It's a small school and although there are not many children they are quite crowded together in a small space during their morning break. They go to the nearby park for lunchtime which is equally scary for him because there is nothing but acres of grass and screaming children! thanks for saying it's not down to bad parenting -- sometimes (actually very often) I think I'm not doing enough to make his life easier and happier but it helps to read these threads and find out what others are doing.

Thank you too, Backforgood! The disastrous appointment with the paediatrician was here and that's all we have. I'm hoping that the next appointment with the same team, whenever that is, will go better. We've had three meetings so far with the SENCo and though she's been great it seems that the class teacher is not as understanding about ASD as we'd hoped. We'll ask for her to be at the next meeting as maybe we could explain to her that DS is not wanting to be annoying or rude or stubborn; he really wants to please and fit in but doesn't know how.

Hi Camerole

Ah your poor DS

DS (6) has a similar-ish anxiety about any child in a year above him (or higher) 'looking at him' - it's completely irrational, but then again maybe not as it stems from him not really understanding their facial expressions, and therefore I suppose, their intentions, when looking at him.
Causes big problems on the school run (for me - he's run infront of a car before to avoid being 'looked at') and also at school when they try and transition him from one area to school to another.

They have actually done what has been suggested above and now he does playtimes with a smaller group only a few times a week and with a 1-2-1 - other playtimes he stays in the library which has helped greatly.

I found this article helpful for me www.heysigmund.com/anxiety-in-kids/
I used to try and rationalise with DS ('there's nothing to worry about' 'it doesn't matter if they look at you' etc) but recently have tried a different approach which has been quite successful, whereby I address his fear as if it could hear me, eg 'hey DS's nervousness - I see you in there! Why don't you come out for a cup of tea and a biscuit?' - and lots of silly things we'd do together. It seems to work by distracting him, making him laugh and maybe by letting him know his feelings are valid (? I don't know it just seems to help!)

Of course this only works when I'm not there and not at school when I'm not..

Also just also to say loads of DS's reports talking about him having to be in control - he is very pathological demand avoidant (PDA, it's on the national autistic website) and a big trait is being in control at all times. Not saying this is your DS, but might be worth reading up on anyway. My DS is FAR worse when he's anxious (which is most of the time at school).
It's absolutely not a reflection of your parenting.

Hope some of this has been helpful - we've had a helluva year at school this year so feel wherever I can help other people out on here (as so many have done for me) I'd like to!

Marshmallow, already I feel a million times better knowing that DS isn't the only boy who has problems with children just looking at him! This is also a big issue for my DS. But he has this strange compulsion to seek out the things that bother him, so if he thinks a child is going to look at him but then they don't, he will actually follow them until they do end up looking at him and then he freaks out!

It's great that your DS can stay in the library during some playtimes. Are there other children there too? This arrangement would be great for my DS but I get the feeling there wouldn't be a member of staff free to look after him.

Part of the problem for me is that the school is already doing so much to keep him physically safe (he has multiple severe food allergies) that I feel paranoid about being a pushy parent! I know it sounds silly but I worry that DS has so many issues that perhaps I should single out only one or two just so as not to overburden the school with special requests! But we're two thirds of the way through the school year and DS is still really struggling and I can't see any other way except to keep on insisting.

How is your DS coping now? Do you think he's happier at school after the last tough year?

Thanks so much, by the way, for the link to Hey Sigmund. Loads of great stuff there!

Have you had any input from a sensory OT? Try GP but specify one with an extra qualification in sensory stuff

Being averse to touch is somethnig that can be improved with therapy. Eg my friends ds who was very sensitive about eg what clothes were comfortable to touch his skin was given therapy - mostly mum brushing his skin with a soft brush which slowly de-sensitised him.

Polter has a support thread for sensory issues on these boards, and it may be that there is something in there that would help.

With SEN there are always two things to think about - first, how do we change dc's environment to make it easier for dc (so playtime club with structure so no fear of touching) and second, what therapy can we give dc to make him better able to manage the mainstream world?

I am thinking a request for an EHCP might be good, but maybe get a bit more evidence.

And it is not bad parenting.

Hello again!

Yes my DS can also be very provocative towards other children, and then gets upset when they do end up chasing / pushing him.
He doesn't really understand that what he's doing looks quite challenging towards other kids.
He can get both positive and negative fixations on one particular child (this is a big feature of PDA - often obsessions can be based on a person rather than a 'thing' - but that's not to say DS doesn't have 'thing' obsessions too).

He sometimes chooses a 'buddy' to go into the library with, other times he's given a iPad and goes on his own.

I take him home for lunch every day (loooong story, not actually legal as can be classed as an informal exclusion, but I had to leave my job last year as we found it impossible to find anyone to cope with DS after school - his behaviour tends to be more challenging in unstructured, busy environments which most childminders / after school clubs are, and we went through 3 different settings who all couldn't cope with him - and he hates school, loves being home with me and giving him this breathing space in the day has helped immensely. But we're working now on a strategy to try and re-integrate him in...)

I should probably add DS is diagnosed with high functioning autism, would probably used to be called Aspergers. But as I say the PDA profile fits him best (he got very work refusal at school and didn't participate in class for a whole month, was v disruptive). However this has meant the school had to access a lot more support for him through emergency funding - hence the 1-2-1 support we now have.
It has made a lot of difference, as has reducing all the situations which were making him so anxious.
He's like a different child at home with me when calm (still very stubborn and things have to be his way etc), but no where near as bad as he is at school.

He also has loads of sensory issues (sucking, likes to have something solid behind him, eg hates it when other children are standing behind him). The school had him assessed by an OT and now again they have introduced things to try and help with this (eg moved his desk against a wall).

His school have been great - but we'd got to the point of exclusion so were at a crossroads.
With the right interventions DS can do well, but I won't lie - it has been a fight and struggle to get to where we are today.

Just read up on everything you can, theses boards are a life saver, and don't be scared of being a pushy parent (I wrote a lot of letters and emails, become quite emotional at times but always kept the school on side. Am lucky as the head v supportive and totally sees it with DS - his class teacher was more challenging this year as just thought he was naughty and her strategies just made every thing worse, hence why his behaviour took a massive nose dive. But for now we're in a better place).

senvet, thank you, I'll definitely have a look at that thread as DS has quite a lot of difficulty with sounds as well as touch. What you say about changing the environment as well as finding the right therapy is something I'd like to highlight to the school, as at the moment it seems that things are balanced too much towards their own version of therapy which is, essentially, to tell him to get a grip.

marshmallow, it's great to hear your DS is more settled -- sounds like such a tough year for you too and I hope you've been able to give yourself a break now and then! It's so stressful for such little mites as our DSs to cope in an educational environment which is so demanding. I already took last year off work to help DS cope, and if I wasn't forced by debt to keep on working I'd definitely try to home educate him. It just seems to me so wrong that he should be worrying about "work" (as well as everything else) at the age of 4! If only I could spend a couple of years taking him swimming, going to the playground, pootling about doing nothing and developing his physical confidence before starting more formal education. It just all seems so messed up!

Hello! You poor thing. You have my utmost sympathy and so does your lovely little boy.
Controlling behaviour my arse.
My DD has autism, first (total tosspot) psych we saw said "you just need to firm up the boundaries" - I cannot tell you how ridiculous this seems now, DD spins around, has an amazing memory, finds real solace in alphabetical order, has massive sensory senstivity and absolutely hates people looking at her - she felt that certain boys in her class "glared", some food textures made her gag, the noise of a hand dryer made her run away and cry - and f only I had just "firmed up the boundaries" all this would've been fine.
Bollocks.
There is so much judgment piled onto parents of kids with ASD. It makes me LIVID. But at least we have each other (god bless mumsnet).

I hate to say it but I think your son's school sounds seriously lacking in the sen department. Telling off a frightened child for following a teacher is really bad and displays a shocking lack of insight into his issues. There may be other reasons the school works for you as a family, but f not, I'd consider getting the hell out of there and finding a place that has an informed understanding of autism. There are mainstream state schools with excellent sencos and great autism understanding - they do exist I promise! If that isn't an option, then all you can do is keep going with your meetings, escalate to head if necessary : worthwhile, and stay calm and polite (as if you'd be anything but!) despite being faced with extreme provocation and explain again and again that he is frightened and they need to help him.
Practical things DDs primary school put in place for her to avoid the glarey boys and the noisy playground;

• a special chair in a quiet bit of school that she could go to a read her book whenever she wanted. It was outside head's office so head and secretary could keep an eye on her- even just knowing that was an option helped Dd.
• a daily 5 minute appointment with a very sweet TA for DD to "share her worries" - even if she didn't have any worries, she just went and had a quick chat, same time every day, with someone who was very understanding and kind. In a sea of noise and chaos this was invaluable.
• loads of rewards, stickers, certificates, catching a word with me at the end of the day - in front of DD - to tell me how well she's done at maths / PE / lunch / anything - the idea being to catch her doing something good and to give her a source of self esteem at school.

It wasn't plain sailing, but it was largely good and I always felt she was going into a kind place where staff did their best to understand and be responsive. Good luck! X

It would not be unreasonable for staff at play breaks to allow him to shadow. It causes them no serious inconvenience other than preventing them from talking too casually.

This would be my request to the school and I would be shocked if they made an issue of it. They should be keen to avoid introducing problems that would make him a school refuser.

At this stage I would also start keeping records of when you speak to the school, what about and their response. This is not to hit them with it, it is for your benefit should you ever pursue a statement. It can be delayed for a long time largely by local authorities requiring the school to make certain interventions first etc, so keeping records should cut that right down.

Should the school fail you completely, rare but it can happen, it does also give you recourse to demand the local authority make suitable provision urgently due to failing in their legal obligations.

Should the school fail you completely, rare but it can happen, it does also give you recourse to demand the local authority make suitable provision urgently due to failing in their legal obligations.

I wish, Jonathan I wish it was rare, and that attempts to get provision urgently worked.

My relative was found on the dual carriageway age 8 before I could convince the LA to fund an emergency 1 to 1, (the words I used were "if he is injured, the writ will be on your desk the next day" - their reply "the budget is empty and that's a fact").

Mum filled in when the LA couldn't but relative still bolted out of school because the LA's 1 to 1 was 'needed' for sports day. dc eventually tracked down and restrained by police several miles away.

And that was before austerity.

You are right on the theory, but experience on these boards of the practice may be a bit of an eye opener for you....

Believe me Senvet, I work at the end of education where failure by LAs is the reason I have students to work with.

But that doesn't mean it isn't rare. Bearing in mind mainstream schools have about 1/5 students with some kind of special educational need and quite often on these boards we will be discussing the 1/100. Of those 1/100, the right school with the right experience in a SENCo can make a real difference without need for extra provision outside of the school.

There will be rare occasions where the school completely fails, it depends on how we define success.

I work with students where getting them to come in on the same day every week for 4 weeks in a row is a real success, we then build up to 3, 4, 5. Some of my students it is a success if we can get them out of their bedroom for 1 hour per day before lunch time, every day. We then build it up to the afternoon.

I absolutely agree that my students have been failed by the system, but that is largely because the system is not in any way set up for the 1/100, it is set up for the 1/68. Of the remaining 32, 16 are G&T 16 have some form of special educational need. 2 out of those 16 will have a severe special educational need.

The system fails outside of the norm, willing and caring staff and parents can most of the time make up the difference which allows a student to enjoy school. In my experience, most staff and most parents are these people.

Therefore it IS rare for a total failure, because it usually requires either a parent or a senior member of staff to not give a damn at all. Where we move the line on 'failure' is up to you, but given the students I work with daily, my threshold is quite low by mainstream standards, but nonetheless a challenge!

Sorry, I got the fractions messed up in the middle.

System is set up for the 68/100, not 1/68!

My Dd3 is in danger of becoming one of your stats jonathon!! We are parents who are utterly worn down by the system and who have been fighting for yrs to make no progress through the system!!

We are the parents who quit, who throw the towel and walk away with our childs mental health just about intact!!

The system is failing children who can function academically but not socially or emotionally!!

Sorry for the hijack OP .

Oh and our Dd3 fits both ends of your stats!! She is both G and T and SEN!! And the system does not have a box for these children!!

Ooops sorry Jonathan [sp]

The main reason I work in specialist SEN is my disike for the one size fits all approach of mainstream.

highland, I love your post! Mirrors exactly my feelings of lividness when looking back at how little the school have done despite all the smiles and reassurances. And at how badly the paed appointment went.

All the things that worked for your DD would probably also work for DS (especially the 5-minute chat with the TA) -- thanks for all those ideas and support. Yes, at least we have each other to share it all with and that is a huge consolation!

JonathanB, such great advice, thank you. I'll definitely keep records from now on (have been too amateur about it up to now). It's interesting what you say about schools often being able to make a difference without extra provision. DS's school has a good reputation for SEN but is very small and it seems the SENCo is well-meaning but overburdened.

In my experience that describes nearly all teachers :)

Highland's advice is excellent by the way. Calm parents that refuse to be budged have a far bigger impact, because it prevents an overburdened middle management from writing it up as emotional or that the parent is struggling at home etc, which would shift the focus to providing emotional support to you. Verbal debriefings up the chain will also be more of a 'She was very pleasant about it, but I have just been bollocked by a parent and to be honest I can see her point'.

The furiously calm parent is a real weapon for their children!