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EP/ Expert Witness recommendation to quantify provision for tribunal

11 replies

P2K2 · 14/03/2015 15:04

Apologies also posted in SN Chat

Hi there, this is my 1st post..

Can anyone recommend an EP type person who would be able to take other EP reports and give an expert witness view on appropriate provision?

We are very close to final evidence deadline for our daughters SEN tribunal and the EP we had appointed to write our EP report has suddenly announced that because they work for an LA and only do private work on the side they feel it unethical for them to quantify a provision.

This has now put what was looking a very strong case in some jeopardy and so we would like to find someone who may be able to produce a report based on the other EP reports we have.

Does anyone have any ideas? We are based in the NW.

Thanks.

OP posts:
senvet · 14/03/2015 17:00

Where abouts in the country are you in the country - is reaching London an option?

EP you appointed sounds like they should have told you this earlier

senvet · 14/03/2015 17:02

Oh and what age is your child and what are the diagnoses if any?

Welcome to the boards

KOKOagainandagain · 14/03/2015 18:13

So an LA EP thinks it is unethical to act lawfully?!? Confused

An EP that also worked for an LA told me she couldn't go to tribunal as a witness against the same LA but this was because of a conflict of interest and did not mean a watered down report.

P2K2 · 14/03/2015 19:45

Thanks for your replies, what is really annoying is that we were so clear about the requirement to quantify at every stage of discussion and then she turns up with a report that did everything but...

We are based in the North West area. Would prefer someone in this area if possible.

DD has various hearing related issues, salt needs, processing delays and attention/ concentration problems.

OP posts:
Icimoi · 14/03/2015 20:49

Have you pointed out to the EP that the law says that provision must be quantified and specified, therefore it can't conceivably be unethical to comply with the law?

P2K2 · 14/03/2015 21:19

Yes Icimoi, but according to this lady it isn't the EPs role, which is very strange seeing as whenever you try to get specification/ quantification by any other route everyone tells you that is the role of an EP.

The whole thing has been a bit surreal really.

OP posts:
Icimoi · 15/03/2015 07:06

I hope she's not expecting to be paid, given that she is refusing to do precisely what you told her she needed to do.

Firsttheyignoreyou · 15/03/2015 09:13

I don't have any answers but think the EP is totally out of order.

For expert witness, I would imagine you are going to need another EP. I am pretty certain you can have the case put back to get this done, given you have been let down badly. Other posters will be able to tell you more accurately - I am thinking of Senvet, in particular.

A report without quantified provision is pretty pointless - but is what my LA does all the time. Looking at your list of needs: I'd be expecting clear guidance from a hearing expert, SALT, and EP to get needs met.

Good luck. It can still all be sorted.

senvet · 15/03/2015 19:19

OK I don't happen to have a stock of EPs based in the North West, but David Urani regularly goes between Bristol and the South East, so he might go up the motorway [email protected] 07958 733161

There is also a problem that some EPs may have ethical difficulties with quantifying based on other EPs' assessment results, but I could find out tomorrow. I fear quite a few will just say they would need to assess from scratch, but if you don't ask, you won't get. Also the Tribunal may have trouble accepting evidence from someone who has quantified without meeting your dc.

Now I am thinking about it, I have seen a fair number of indie EP reports which are a bit lower on quantifying than I would have liked, and those are from EPs who never do work for LAs.

I am just wondering if you might have better luck adding a SALT who will quantify SALT for you. Your EP would be right in saying that quantifying SALT is outside their remit. All the indie salt reports I have seen are much better for quantifying than the EP ones.

Similarly a good OT would quantify, and again, an EP might feel that their qualification does not extend to doing that.

I am sorry I don't have a magic bullet for you, BUT

Has your EP put in writing that because they work for an LA and only do private work on the side they feel it unethical for them to quantify a provision?

If so I you could make good use of that. What you really want is for your present EP to quantify by the deadline, so a suggestion from you that they might have beached the code and you would far rather s/he quantified the report than landed a complaint to the Health Professionals Council.

Otherwise, and assuming you do have the magic words in writing, you can use it (a) to get an extension of the deadline if you need it and (b) to found a complaint based on the code of ethics of the British Psychological Society www.bps.org.uk The complaint goes to the Health Professions Council www.hpc-uk.org and (c) to undermine the LA's EP if that is also unquantified.

fyi the British Psychological Society has a code of Pactice which in the introduction says "Psychologists will also need to familiarise themselves
with the legal framework, regulatory requirements and other
guidance relevant to the particular context in which they work.
"

The whole code of ethics is at www.bps.org.uk/system/files/Public%20files/bps_code_of_ethics_2009.pdf

The bits I have spotted that seem relevant are :-

Psychologists should:-
2.2
(vii) Given the existence of legal obligations that may
occasionally appear to contradict certain provisions of this
Code, analyse such contradictions with particular care, and
adhere to the extent possible to these ethical principles
while meeting the legal requirements of their professional
roles
3.2
(iii) Terminate professional services when clients do not appear
to be deriving benefit and are unlikely to do so.
4.2
(iii) Clarify for clients and other relevant parties the
professional roles currently assumed and conflicts of
interest that might potentially arise.

It may be that you could do a no-names enquiry to find out if they will give you a view on whether the code is breached. Then if your EP continues to refuse to quantify/insist on being paid you cna use any positive opinion you have available.

Depending on what you have in writing, you may have enough evidence that it is a term of your contract that the EP quantifies, but you can take all the emails and any terms and conditions from the EP to the CRB before paying up.

I really hope this helps, and that your ep can be sorted.

S/he wouldn't want the work on the side to dry up, but if s/he won't quantify then the internet should be aware of the name-not-to-pay-for.

P2K2 · 15/03/2015 19:40

Thanks for all your input Senvet. If you could find out around the EP question that would be great.

We do have 2 really good SALT reports that have quantified the SALT provision and one has also quantified overall support requirements as well ( the second does not quantify but recommends significant support)

Do you think this would be enough to still go ahead?

Your comments about the BPS are really interesting as she has used the BPS code as a reason not to quantify. We don't have the exact comments in writing.

OP posts:
senvet · 15/03/2015 23:28

Oh bad luck on not having it in writing, but if you write an email confirming the conversation then she will have an opportunity to say 'I never said that'.

Something along the lines of 'thanks for phoning the other day to explain that you could not add your opinion on the quantification of the provision you have recommended because you work for an LA and do not quantify reports for them. I gather that to change tack would be a breach of the code of ethics of the BPS. Please let me know if I have misunderstood anything in our call'

She then has a chance to reply. If she doesn't then she can be taken to agree and you have a written document for the BPS.

But getting back to trying to get something sorted by the deadline, can you ask her what the minimum would be? I mean if she is talking about how often a behaviour programme needs to be reviewed, there must be a minimum she can come up with. Or are we on amounts of one to one support and it says something vague like 'would benefit from one to one support to refocus'? pm me if you don't want it on the boards, or I won't be offended if you just want to keep going with the plan of a new EP.

Her mistake for BPS code purposes isn't in the different type of report but in taking on a client who wanted quantification and then deciding that you couldn't give it.

I'll try and get hold of some EPs tomorrow who might know about quantifying someone elses reports or indeed have some EP recommendations up north.

Hang in there

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