Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

SN children

Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on special needs.

Flip

1 2

Original poster

OMG i did it - I won my tribunal costs back!!

48 replies

bjkmummy · 13/03/2015 12:29

The deadline for my final submission was only on Tuesday and decision in today and they have awarded us the whole lot!

judgement absolutely scathing of the LA - wrote by my tribunal judge no less and he makes it clear that the case should never ever have been bought to tribunal in the first place and that the LA never had a case at all - period.

He rips apart the submission the barrister had made in defending the costs namely only £48 per witness, that I had to apply on the day, the consent order had to refer to the costs - the judge points out he was wrong on all points!!

the judge made it clear that yes the LA had conceded on the day but to have pursued it to an hearing would have been a much worse thing to do!

I cant believe it ! little ole me who researched the law behind it all and pulled apart the LA barristers submission to then go and win again is slightly overwhelming today and I still have stuff to serve on the LA today re the forthcoming tribunal.

the judgement also further clarifies the consent order as well regarding the EHCP which is good as well

OP posts:

Original poster

bjkmummy · 13/03/2015 18:03

well he did look about 12 to be honest.......... the problem with the barrister is that the LA are so dire so hes telling them this but they are telling him to fight and in his defence how can he fight when he has nothing to go on. he had to work so hard to get them to concede as LA were determined to take it all the way.

the bit where the barrister says 'well the judge said I was amazing' the judge responds ' the judge complimented the LA rep on his pragmatic approach at the hearing which led to a settlement. This is true, but does not demonstrate that the LA acted reasonably in failing to take that pragmatic approach before the hearing' ouch!

the bit where the barrister says my witness only entitled to £48 - the judge says 'this is misconceived. costs are assessed with referenence to those reasonably incurred ... those set out in the schedule are in line with the expected level of professional witnesses. the entirety of the costs claimed is allowed'

and what seems to be the most important point ' the inescapable fact is that the LA had all the evidence before the hearing and there is no reasonable explanation for waiting till the day of the hearing to concede. A costs order must follow because there is no reasonable explanation for doing so'

OP posts:

WintersDayTOWIE · 13/03/2015 18:58

What a fantastic order. Finally, a judge with some common sense! I hope you get the same judge when (if) you get to the next Tribunal.

2boysnamedR · 13/03/2015 19:25

Can you ask for the same judge?

Original poster

bjkmummy · 13/03/2015 19:31

I sort of regret now in my response not putting in what the LA did next as wanted to keep the issue to the costs but now wish I had as he would have read it!!

he also makes reference to the EHCP - he says this 'the fact that the LA intends to convert this at an early opportunity to an EHC is praiseworthy, but irrelevant. It is not an outcome of the proceedings and did not need parties to attend a hearing to achieve it'

OP posts:

StarlightMcKenzee · 13/03/2015 20:39

Is the LA legal bod a 'known' one?

Original poster

bjkmummy · 13/03/2015 20:49

no star - they are pretty unknown in all honesty and not specialist in sen law more civil law

OP posts:

2boysnamedR · 13/03/2015 21:22

Praiseworthy? Oh my life!

AgnesDiPesto · 13/03/2015 21:54

Just wow! Well done you. Epic result.

Icimoi · 13/03/2015 23:13

Why is it praiseworthy to convert it to an EHC plan? And in fact didn't they say they would only do an EHC assessment?

Original poster

bjkmummy · 14/03/2015 07:29

well this is it icimoi - I think the LA are on the assessment line and the barrister was on the line of a plan - class teacher is also concerned as she was in the room when things were discussed between barrister and LA and her understanding of what she heard was agreed is different to now what the LA are saying to her so she asked me for a copy of the consent order.

the response the barrister made in the costs application is different to what the LA have actually done so the LA are on a very sticky wicket especially now that the appeal has landed as well. the costs order now backs up our next appeal and deffo makes us less unreasonable by going to appeal now.

my concern is that I think the LA will still misbehave big time and although yesterday we were so happy we know there will be a sting in the tail coming our way - today is Saturday and as we all know , my lovely LA do like to pop something into our post box today

OP posts:

Bilberry · 14/03/2015 09:14

Your LA are in a hole, they may well keep digging but it will only make their hole deeper. They can't keep this up for much longer now they have been shown to be vexatious though they will probably try...

deadwitchproject · 14/03/2015 09:51

Excellent news! Well done to you.

Firsttheyignoreyou · 15/03/2015 09:23

Your news has made me smile . Well done. Something very positive amongst so much unnecessary stress. Use it as a touchstone to keep going. The judge has said you are right and they are wrong - we all knew that but it is so good to hear from outside.

manishkmehta · 15/03/2015 13:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

StarlightMcKenzee · 15/03/2015 14:49

Bet it barely compensates you for paper, ink and stress though. Still, you're an inspiration.

Original poster

bjkmummy · 15/03/2015 14:59

for me the best part is that when their barrister responded opposing it he made 5 points and the judge blew them all out of the water and that he was wrong on every single point! little old me with no legal training but the help of you guys on here v a barrister who was probably paid about £100 an hour for his 'expertise' my friends are calling me 'erin brockovich'

lets see what they do next but I think there will be a sting yet to come......

I think also re the LA unreasonableness - when the nIL was first issued a friend advised me to write to the head of childrens services to get them to reconsider - they passed it down and I got a really nasty letter back so all of this was put in the evidence bundle plus other letters along the way where we tried to reason with them - all ignored and its that what has got them I think as the judge made it clear the LA had many opportunities to resolve it and chose not to and instead instructed a barrister with 10 days to go.

the saddest part still is that when I started this journey in dec 2013 to today - my daughter has still received no extra help whatsoever and not likely to now until she enters secondary school - that's her whole primary school life wasted.

OP posts:

StarlightMcKenzee · 15/03/2015 15:36

I know bkj . A 'win' is actually nothing of the sort.

It's more like being freed from a prison you were wrongly sent to but with no compensation or acknowledgement of the suffering you had whilst in there, nor any guarantee that anyone will take the lost years into account when dealing with you in the future.

Bilberry · 15/03/2015 19:19

You are underestimating how much a barrister costs; I would think £300 per hour would be nearer the mark. If I remember correctly, they can't be sued for poor advice either...

maggiso · 15/03/2015 20:21

Well done BJK.

tryingtokeepintune · 16/03/2015 10:35

So happy for you bjk. Well done.

tryingtokeepintune · 16/03/2015 10:40

Just read your post at 14:59 bjk. Yes, the time, energy and money etc wasted to get what your child needs - and all you are fighting for is the minimum that the law provides for the adequate education of your child too.

It is sad how little it actually takes to give us SN mums some happiness when it comes to our children's education and care.

Georgethesecond · 16/03/2015 10:47

"Vexatious" is a term with a specific legal meaning - (am a solicitor but this is not my area of work). Did the judge actually say that their conduct in the litigation had been vexatious? That is very strong criticism, and about as severe as a judge would ever be re a litigant. Don't underestimate the use of that term, if it was specifically used, and make sure you bandy it about liberally in any future proceedings.

ChaiseLounger · 16/03/2015 20:18

Well done bjk. Many congratulations to you!

Flip

1 2