LA have served notice of transfer to EHCP on us = now what do i do??

[bjkmummy]

we knew they would do it as it was in the consent order - of course we get the letter on a Saturday.

the letter is really odd as its says we are starting the transfer and asked school to arrange meeting in about 3 weeks time (last week of term)

it twitters about the meeting looking at the statement and what further assessments are needed.

as this meeting is taking place in about week 9 of a 14 week timeline they really have left it far too late for any assessments haven't they or is that plan I wonder.

as you know we have appealed the statement and its stuck at sendist at the moment awaiting a hearing date to be allocated/ this transfer letter goes on to say that I can appeal the statement which is odd as I thought that once they had served notice of transfer onto you you couldn't appeal?

its just a letter - no other paperwork came with it, nothing for me to complete whereas with my son I had lots of forms to complete - this time nothing but the letter.

not sure what to now do about the transfer meeting - no one asked me yet what my availability is - a friend thinks I should now lie low and let the appeal land on the sen officers desk. she thinks I should go nowhere near a transfer meeting but I don't want to seem obstructive at the forthcoming appeal so should I go ? I have a feeling they will bring the senco from the mainstream secondary to the transfer meeting. this is just getting complicated but in reality now I just want to focus on the appeal

there is no way the LA are going to meet the deadline of 1/5 to issue a finalised EHCP and even if they did no way would the appeal be heard before sept hence why ive appealed the statement.

it just feels (again) that the LA have no idea what they are doing but still have a sneaky plan up their sleeve

How confident do you feel about drafting the EHCP?
I am all for taking over other people's meeting agendas and taking control.

For EHCP they are supposed to start with the Statement and just move prts 2 3 and 4 over to their equivalent letters. You could argue for some upgrades on the Best Possible test.

Obviously your draft would include all the changes you want to see made, and if you are feeling like really sweetening the Tribunal you could do it in Working Document mode with all those bold strike through things etc.

When sending it to the LA, copying the Tribunal, of course, your covering letter might say something like:-

'thank you for your letter received today, Saturday 8 November, (copy attached) notifying me that you starting the transfer to EHCP and have asked the school to arrange a meeting for the last week of term. Given the tight timetable for compliance with [insert whatever bit the 14 week timetable comes from], I attach the draft EHCP that we would like to see. I hope you can agree to this, and then the matter can be settled prior to the next Tribunal Hearing. The Appeal paperwork will be with you shortly, and certainly before the meeting you propose. The meeting would then be a good opportunity to discuss the changes we can agree and those, if any, [ha ha, I know, but the Tribunal like an optimist] which will continue to appeal.'

Just an idea. I may have got a bit carried away, but I love the smell of LA-baiting in the morning...

By the way, why don't they email things to you? I suspect there is a big rush at the the LA at the end of the week and everything gets shoved out the door on Friday afternoon.

In the transition notes for the new code of practice it says if a statement appeal in ongoing they cant transfer to an EHCP!! I am certain it does. I just need to go to Aldi and then I will check!

I would stick to your appeal and try to work with them on the ehcp in the meantime. Then you have been reasonable. Tell them what you want to see in it but keep tight lipped about anything else.

My statement is due next week. I don't know why but everything is done on the last day. I wonder if they don't look at anything until the last day as they are so busy screwing everyone with cut backs?

It's all just fuel to your appeal fire

ineed - in the transition arrangements it states that if the statement is under appeal then it cannot be transferred to an EHCP - of course the LA don't know that part yet........

but then it is odd that the transfer letter then tells me again I am able to appeal the statement???

honestly my LA deliberately are posting things on a Friday = before at tribunal number 1 over dd they were hand delivering everything and I told them to stop. now its on a Friday - the letters are not going through the post room so come unfranked unlike other post that comes from other depts. at the LA - the SEN letters come with just a stamp stuck on it as though someone is posting them on their way home from work..........

senvet - your letter is spot on and I think that is the way to approach it - thank you for showing me the light!

the statement is currently dire as part 2 now has a paragraph from each of my indie reports in it but no provison from those reports in part 3 - given that the reports state that she needs a specialist school and no end of provision the LA are stuck. as they've put the reports in part 2 they have now accepted them and have acted unlawful by placing no provision in part 3 at all.

the letter also twitters on about the meeting will discuss what further assessments are needed - given that the meeting will take place in week 9 of the 14 week process how they are now still muting further assessments I have no idea..........

the LA have used the last appeal to buy themselves time, they asked the school to refer dd to nhs salt , school tipped me off and I said that if the LA want to refer her then they need to gain permission from me. to date the LA have not asked me to give permission and class teacher has confirmed the message was given to the LA. the NHS SALT refused to see her for tribunal number 2 so maybe LA are hoping if school ask it may just get through but I doubt it would.

to be honest last place I want to be is in a meeting with the sen officer but needs must I guess

Oh glad you knew that about the appeals thing! I have page blindness today and read and read the transition notse and cant find it It happens to me regularly!

Glad the letter helped.

Better a meeting where you have drafted the Agenda and circulated in advance....

I guess you are a Tribunal veteran and so know the scheme of type faces for a Tribunal Working Document but I can root them out from something if you son't have them.

So Agenda

1. Is it legal to be discussing EHCP when Appeal against Statement is pending?
2. What amendments can be agreed to Part 2?
3. What amendments can be agreed to Part 3? - I agree that it makes no sense to agree to the indie experts findings in Part 2 and ignore their findings in Part 3, but I would save that argument for later in the appeal - if you mention it too early they may just think of an answer
4. What additional amendments can be agreed for a transition to Best Possible Test? - this is of course to get them to realise that rushing to EHCP may do them no good.
5. Steps and dates to comply with 14 week timetable.

I agree that it makes no sense to agree to the indie experts findings in Part 2 and ignore their findings in Part 3, but I would save that argument for later in the appeal - if you mention it too early they may just think of an answer.

I wonder if that will make them re-think the idea of a meeting?

Good luck

i don't get the 14 week timeline - LA agreed assessment would be done by 1st May but it doesn't specifically state if this is when the finalised EHCP would be issued as the idea was 1st may - then if we were not happy we could appeal but 12 weeks from 1st May is 31st July so no appeal in reality would be heard before sept (plus I would need to get a mediation certificate as well)

so the 14 weeks I thought ran from the date of the tribunal as that takes us to 1st may - but that seems not to be the case at all. given that now the LA have done nothing and the meeting is 9 weeks into the 14 weeks or will the LA start to count from the meeting 14 weeks but then that means no way 1st may can be achieved - its an absolute mess of course!

the transiton arrangement contradict themselves - it states you cant do an ehcp transfer if an appeal is in progress but then it does state that the parents in the transfer review letter should be told they have the right of appeal????

it then says that if the transfer notice is served then parents cant then appeal either so its really confusing!

it then does say that LA must finalise a plan within 14 weeks of being notified of the transfer so that means they have 14 weeks again from yesterday which again exceeds the 1st may timeline - the LA have been very sneaky - I wrote and asked them to give me a detailed timeline and all they said is they would complete the assessment by 1st may so they are being sly about it all

Hasn't the Tribunal in effect departed from the usual rules via the consent order so you can appeal the statement despite the EHCP transfer (even though that would not normally be allowed)?
So I would just sit tight and let your appeal arrive.
Prepare for the meeting with your preferred changes / working doc version of EHCP.

We just got a letter no forms too.

They probably just expect to copy and paste their rubbish statement onto a rubbish ehcp so think it won't take long.

Once you know they have the appeal you can write and acknowledge the transfer review paperwork, say you expect the ehcp to be issued by 1 May as directed by Tribunal and thank them for confirming you can still appeal which by now they will know you had done already.

in theory agnes the consent order is saying I cant appeal until the ehcp is done but after taking legal advice the consent order is illogical and in reality should never have been issued - the solicitor wrote an addendum to my appeal which I cant serve yet until the date comes through.

I think I will let the appeal against the statement rumble on in the background, kind of play ball with the EHCP cos if they issue a legal binding ehcp plan with all of our reports fully used and also agree to our placement (never going to happen) the I would withdraw the appeal obviously. it also means that the LA are going to have to play nicely as if they have any dirty tricks they will be shown in all their glory at the forthcoming tribunal. if the LA are going to play nicely and have my dd interests at heart and have no intention of screwing her over, then they have nothing to be worried about do they.

my appeal basically now forces their hand and stops the plan I bet which was to delay delay dealy well past sept

I also have an EHCP for my older son so I can write my own EHCP for my dd by using that as a template so will do that over the next couple of weeks.

I thought the order was that assessment would be carried out by May. The tribunal can't prejudge findings of assessment not yet conducted. It would not make sense to allow appeal if that assessment indicated no ECHP if this were not the meaning. The LA don't have to finalise by then so they won't. Add the appropriate timeline from assessment. Equals delay past September.

Stick with the appeal of the statement. It sounds like sendist would have things the wrong way around if they denied right of appeal of an existing statement due to promised EHCP assessment.

its so confusing keep isn't it but what you say makes sense as well. the consent order has made things so confusing but yes it means I could appeal even if the LA conclude no ehcp so then I revert to an appeal against the statement. the tribunal should have just ordered the LA to issue a statement and not got involved with the EHCP nonsense - it was probably out of their jurisdiction so the best thing to do now is just appeal the statement this 'holding statement' that was issued so that's what I will focus on - just hope they hurry up listing it as now been over 2 weeks they've had it and still not listed it!!! so much for fast track........

Maybe just keep appealing every time there is something that can be appealed and let the Tribunal work out a consolidation.

The key questions of either Statement or ehcp are what you say the provision should be against what the LA say. OK the legal tests are different, but I would not miss a chance to appeal - it might backfire. Just keep the accompanying letters clear that it should be linked to Tribunal number [whatever] as it is the same child, same LA and same facts.

The time line I have is.
Two weeks notice of transfer review
Ten weeks assessment evidence gathering.
Two weeks/fifteen days draft plan
Two weeks/fifteen days final plan.

So EHCP should be completed in 16 weeks from now.

However it is clear in the legislation that if there is an appeal on a statement, transfer cannot begin, so they must be making it up as they go along.

okay - phoned sendist again and still it has not been listed - they are now over the 10 day timeline they have to list them and just keep saying it will be done 'soon'

class teacher phoned and the sen officer been on the phone to her to give her availability for the ehcp meeting and asking teacher to now contact us so meeting will be in 2 weeks time.

im concerned as in no one knows I have appealed so think im going to have to bite the bullet and email the sen officer along the lines of what senvet has said - I will tonight and tomorrow draft an ehcp plan and forward that as well.

class teacher is saying that the sen officer seems to not be doing what was agreed with the barrister at the tribunal. she has asked me if I have the order so she can look at it as she is concerned herself about what is happening - school is in a different LA than where we live so teacher on about sending paperwork that her LA use just to make it even more confusing - so time to get drafting an EHCP = oh lucky me!!!

I get the feeling the Tribunal is massively overworked and under-manned. Keep and eye on them losing stuff, offer to re-send if it would help them.

And we need more cuts in public services apparently.

they definitely have it so that's good - its on someones desk but I have a feeling they are fire fighting and the new appeals are getting lost in the backlog

Seriously, I wouldn't engage with the EHCP process if I were you. The plain fact of the matter is that they cannot issue an EHCP when there is an appeal ongoing and it's a waste of your time and theirs to let them think they can. Tell them you have issued an appeal and therefore they cannot issue an EHCP, but you are happy to meet with them to discuss the statement.

looks like the LA plan for the EHCP have been abandoned - should have been having a meeting next week but the LA / school stalling about handing over paperwork and today I get a letter from the LA saying the meeting is cancelled next week but instead now a different meeting at the LA offices with us and the sen officer and the LA EP to discuss a way forward - god knows what they are up to now

I bet they want to suggest you abandon the appeal and let the EHCP go forward. I suggest you start doing your working document now and tell them that if they produce a properly detailed and quantified statement that names your choice of school from September and undertake to do the same with the EHCP you'll consider that, but not under any other circumstances.

A kind of progress then.

Will you have someone with you bj?

I heard of someone who went to a meeting and said that they would just be listening to the LA about their position, and would take notes away to consider and reply later. It makes it impossible for the other side to claim you said or agreed to things that you did not say or did not agree to.

Not saying you should do this, just that it is an option.

Hey, its Friday night so you may get a letter confirming this tomorrow. If it is a nice day you could have a picnic or a camp-out in the front of your home and save them hand delivering through the letter box!!

we have a caravan on the front of the house so we could pop the kettle on whilst we wait don't think ive got time to organise someone to come with me plus PP wont get involved now its a tribunal - DH will be with me so I wont be alone

Oh good for dh,

I do worry about people who go into a room of LA folk all discussing their dcs with a veil of compassion covering their spend-averse faces.

I have heard half a dozen LAs (bear in mind this is over 15 years of listening on the grape vine) saying 'we just wanted a chat with mum' which translates as 'we just wanted to try to persuade mum to back down'.

Anyway, you could still go with the Agenda above, just, if it were me I'd keep it to points 1 to 3 and , I would keep quiet about your point about it being irrational to agree with indie Part 2 and not indie Part 3 - if you end up in Tribunal you can bring it out then and it will be harder for them to to think of an answer on the spot.

You know your case best - I am just posting ideas in case anything chimes, and won't be at all offended if nothing does.

I am thinking of you in your caravan today!!