Legal liabilities for criminal damage by children at school.

[OneInEight]

Could anyone let me know the policy of their special school with respect to damage of property by the pupils. Are you expected to pay and does anyone know the legal position on this? There is a change of policy at ds2's school which we are a little concerned about as there have been incidents when he is stressed.

Sorry, I don't have a clue, however, I will be watching this with interest. Ds1 smeared poo on the walls of toilet cubicle at his SS a few times, and we got a letter saying it was considered "damage to school property." I very calmly told them they could consider it that if they wanted to, but as I've worked for the police, I know that as the poo just wipes off, it's not considered criminal damage as there is no actual "damage," so they needed to keep that in mind depending on what they plan on doing with that information. Yes, I was a bit snarky about it.

God only knows what they'd do if he actually damaged something expensive.

Ds1 wrote on the screen of a laptop with a marker when he was at MS school, and they stated it ruined the laptop, but they didn't "blame" him as 1-he had a 1:1 that should have stopped it (she learned the hard way how fast he really is) and 2-the teacher should not have left the laptop unattended in a classroom of 25+ reception children. No mention was made of us paying for it.

Thanks Alice. ds2 is not one to cause damage if he is not stressed so my view is that any damage that does occur is due to inadequacies of staffing levels or knowledge on how to manage him appropriately when he is stressed. To be honest our relations with the school are at breaking point so a bill sent home is likely to be the final straw.

I think a special school would have a massive problem in enforcing this type of policy. If you have pupils whose difficulties are such that they may cause damage, part of your responsibility is to teach them not to ,or to avoid getting into a situation where they may cause damage. And, if you can't, then you would have to show that you had taken every reasonable precaution, including having someone with the child in question whose function is to protect both the child and your property. If you do get a bill, OneInEight, I suggest you demand a full account of how the incident in question occurred, a copy of their risk assessment, and full details of how they allowed it to happen; in particular ask precisely how they allowed your child to get so stressed that the incident happened at all, and make it clear that if they try to sue you will be cross-claiming.

This is pretty weird.
The main law for school damage other than criminal damage is negligence, and if my dd caused damage by negligence I would have to pay as she is a minor. I watch a lot of Judge Judy.

By the way Alice I think they would have to prove criminal intent which would be incredibly hard of your dc is in a special school and does not realise that he is doing anything wrong.

But when it is a matter of poor supervision, particularly of ss children, then the school should be liable. They might want to review their insurance.

If it is reasonably predictable that dc will have meltdowns and lash out when stressed, then their policies should a) try to prevent that occurring b) protect dc and staff members when it does and c) protect the fabric of the building.

I really struggle to see how they can enforce their policy through a court.

So what to do about it?

Well I would ask for a copy of the policy, and then see if IPSEA's lawyers would look at it and sort it out with the school/LA legal bods. Try to keep out of it if you can. Your nerves sound stretched enough to me.

If IPSEA doesn't run with it, then pm me. There are some pro bono solicitors/barristers on a register who might be able to give an opinion.

This is an interesting topic. My son attends a SS. Last week a number of lockers were broken into. Children's bags were taken. Most of the bags were found in various places around the school grounds. The boy responsible was caught on Friday burning the remaining bags and contents within the school grounds. I have no idea what is going to happen about this.

Thanks senvet and icimoi. I am glad others think it is unreasonable and not just me and dh over-reacting.

BigBird if you have any loss then ask the school to claim on their insurance. That is what it is there for surely?

BigBird I'd say my first question would be how could this boy have done all this without any staff even noticing 1-that he's doing it all 2-that he's obviously not where he should be (presumably in class) and 3-what did he use to start the fire and how did he get ahold of it? (something on campus v something brought from home?).

We've never been asked for a contribution either from local school or special school.

BigBird I agree that sounds like a rather serious supervision and safeguarding issue.

Thanks for your support on this one. I am glad you agree that school is failing in it's duty of care

I've worked in SS for 11 years now. We have had incidents (severely autistic non verbal full sized young men with very challenging behaviour) who have caused considerable damage over the years.. computers thrown, windows smashed, on one particularly difficult occasion our minibus was literally ripped apart (said young man now in extremely specialst adult care setting.. we are actually pretty good at our jobs!) and to my knowledge no parent has ever been billed... the children are at the school because of their needs, and the school's insurance covers incidents.

I think they'd be on shaky legal ground trying to push that one tbh!

Thanks. We have gone through the SEN team to try and get this sorted and school have upped their game this week. Interestingly, the SEN officer did report a case of the parents of a child at the local EBD secondary being billed for damage so it does happen. I think our problem is that ds2 can look as if he is control when actually he really isn't at all.