Teacher thinks DD, aged 5, might be in the autistic spectrum

[PorridgeIsYummy]

I was called for a meeting with my dd's very experienced reception teacher last week and to my huge surprise, she told me she thought she might be on the autistic spectrum. It's never crossed my mind before: she's very physically affectionate, even with people she doesn't know so well, she gives good eye contact, doesn't mind her routine being changed and lives social situations like parties and so on. She is, to be honest, a live wire and talks/sings to herself a lot, but isn't that normal at this age?

Her teacher is worries because she is disobedient in class and doesn't always focus on the task at hand. She also sometimes takes things quite literally (example given: "let's count backwards, children", so she walks backwards whilst counting forwards). She finds her quite challenging and academically, she's a bit behind, although she's also one of the youngest in her year group.

I just think she's very active and, admittedly, quite disobedient and naughty. Me and my dh talked to our GP, who felt the same - but he obviously doesn't know our dd like her teacher does. We've just been sent a letter by the school to say that children who are suspected SEN can have extra support. I'm all for support, but part of me Is v worried about the effects of labelling my dd at this very young age.

What are your thoughts? Thank you v much in advance.

Sorry about the typos!

And dd is 4, not 5!!! Silly phone.

It's a bit late for me to be that coherent, but my thoughts are:

1. What expertise or qualifications does the class teacher have to make such a pronouncement?

1. Has there been anything YOU have been concerned about with dd before, whether you've thought asd or anything else? Did you go to GP before the teacher said this? If so, what were your concerns?

1. If school are suggesting that she needs additional support, take it, but this has no bearing on whether dd has asd or any other diagnosable condition. School are not qualified to diagnose anything, but they can flag up difficulties. They can and should also be supporting any child who they think needs extra support.

1. A diagnosable condition is not a label. It is a diagnosis.

1. If your dd is on the autistic spectrum she'll be so, whether she is diagnosed ("labelled") or not. It's not the label that that gives someone autism, it's the autism that does that.

1. Even if she is ever diagnosed with anything, there should be no fear of stigma. It is up to you, and her when old enough, to make it public to whomever you want. School should be pressed to act discreetly.

1. It might be worth looking at her behaviour and disobedience issues, not under the SN heading, but just objectively, and look at what strategies might be on offer to help with this.

1. Clarify from school what 'support' they are proposing to provide her.

1. She sounds quite lovely and fun

Sorry to sound brusque, I should be in bed!

Thanks! We've never been concerned she might be asd and only went to talk to our GP after my conversation with the class teacher. The teacher has not got sen qualifications, but she is very experienced and she's obviously seen something different in her - but I haven't! I never thought she was different in any way. Yes, she's very active, she's disobedient (but always has a smile on her face even she's being naughty and she's it worse than my son or some other kids I know). She's a but behind academically, but not ridiculously so and she's one if the youngest in her class. She seems bright enough to me otherwise, but then I'm her mummy!

She's not worse than other kids I know - phone being silly again!

If you don't want het to go through assessment and diagnosis then that is entirely your choice. She should still be entitled to support from school as it should be needs based and not dependent on diagnosis. However there will be other outside help that is available to school that you can only access once diagnosed such as asd outreach. The assessment pathways for autism can be very long (up to 2 years where I live) so you could always go on the pathway and leave it if you change your mind later on.
Fwiw it was a school teacher who picked up on my son's autism. It was completely missed by an experienced health visitor, childminder, nursery and me (a paeds nurse)! Ds is quite badly affected by his autism and it was blatantly obvious to everyone else that saw him in school such as educational psychologist and speech and language therapist. So although a teacher isn't qualified to diagnose it they see so many children and pick up on these things. Sometimes they are spot on and sometimes they get it wrong. Asd presents differently in girls and I'm sure some posters will come along and share their experiences with you. The gp will just follow your lead ime.

The class staff are now tasked with spotting possible signs of SEN, but get little training. Mostly people complain because their class teachers won't help to get support so thank goodness you have one who does! It has to be better to raise what they see that sets you child apart from the majority, even if it isn't something that has a name, or a problem in the long run.

The hugging, even inappropriate people: Just heard of a case like that in an older primary ASD lad and a teacher raising it as inappropriate because he had failed to understand the 'no touch' zone around 'private parts'

That case was sorted by a good sensory OT who said that he was seeking sensory pressure. Just doing resistance exercise settled him - so things like opening weighted fire doors or press ups against a wall. Deep pressure in the palm sometimes does the trick.

One sensory-lad could happily concentrate for an hour if he just did press ups against the wall now and then to re-set his system

The delay may be from sensory issues causing distraction. So if dd seeks out noise and stimulation eg at parties then she might progress better with some quiet time with a return to noise and bustle as a reward.

I am not an expert, and obviously cannot begin to diagnose, but I wonder if a good sensory OT might help to settle dd and to ensure the gap between her and her class-mates starts to close, rather than open wider.

If you can afford an indie report Miri Horovitz Cohen at OT London is good.

Good Luck

Thanks. Re physical contact - she doesn't touch people inappropriately . What I meant was that she loves cuddles and will hug and sit on my friends' laps even if she doesn't know them very well - she doesn't do it with strangers but is still very friendly with anybody who shows her attention. This, to me (bearing in mind I'm not v familiar with asd at all), doesn't match autistic traits? Or perhaps I don't understand the condition well?

I think she's more likely to be hyperactive - I've read the nhs info on asd and she doesn't match any symptom; however, she does have many ADHD traits. What do you think?

The same happened to my DS in reception. Teacher suggested it, I had no idea, it was out of the blue. My instant thought was 'you aren't qualified to say that'. However, I went away and thought about it, and read up on it. DS can be quite tricky sometimes and although he doesn't meet a lot of the usual stuff (eye contact, affection etc), there are definitely areas where he struggles (trying new food causes major anxiety, he gets frustrated very easily and struggles to manage his emotions, he has personal boundary and space issues - both over and under sensitive). So he is getting extra help from the school with social skills and support with tricky times like carpet time. He's now Y1 and has also been observed by an ed psych who came up with some strategies. Family and friends would say that he is fine and we are so used to managing him at home that he isn't a problem, but there is something there. We may end up going down the diagnosis route if he struggles as he gets older, but at the moment we are just grateful for the support he is getting. He is very bright and also likely to be an introvert and he is like I was at school so he may just be socially awkward and sensitive. Time will tell, I think.

Sorry wasn't suggesting she 'touches inappropriately'with all the awful connotations that carries.

Its just that the loves-hugging-lad I mentioned had had that phrase thrown at him when he was only trying to give and receive a hug!

What matters most is 'what should be done to help her be happy?' And if she has behaviour which is setting her apart from her peers in the reception class then what looks like a bit of a laugh (and a bit tricky for the teacher) in reception might become a reason to be told off in Year 1 and to lose friends in year 2. That's the worry I am feeling from the pen portrait you have given.

ASD is odd in that it presents so differently in one person to the next, and generally presents quite differently in girls than boys. And of course it is on a spectrum. Professor Baron Cohen (not Borat!) argues that we are all on the spectrum and you can do an online test to see where you are. At what point do you diagnose?

Well Christopher Green who wrote the Toddler Taming books and specialises in ADHD - also a spectrum - says 'a problem isn't a problem unless gives you problems'

So if your dd has behaviour which is setting her apart from the majority and affecting her learning, then I would say that it is definitely worth getting help in class, and thinking about diagnosis. Your class teacher is saying 'the problem IS a problem'

It is always so sad when the kids blame themselves for things that are not their fault, ASD, ADHD, Sensory - whatever it is called they tend to take it on their own shoulders.

I hope this helps

I do get that he is a maverick.
I sometimes throw the idea out there to challenge bog-standard folk from looking askance at ASD folk as 'other' or 'alien'.

I have not heard the latest on when to diagnose (and when not) at the mild end. any links on that?

Sorry porridge - hijacking your thread to tap into the Polter knowledge bank

I'm totally with your ds Polter. A thing isn't objectively right just because the majority somewhere do it or say it.

porridgehave just seen another post on the 'rage against helpful comments' thread railing against being told "well we are all on the spectrum somewhere" so apologies if it was unhelpful.

Diagnosis or not, I hope your dc can be happy and remain so. Polter's book sounds like a good place to start

I think OP you perhaps have heard some things about ASD which have 'stuck' and they aren't necessarily helpful.

A phrase you'll hear a lot round here is 'if you've met one person with ASD, you've met one person with ASD.' It is as unique as each of us.

My DS is incredibly affectionate, always has been, he is as cuddly and snuggly as a 9 yo bag of bones can be . His eye contact is also pretty good. But that doesn't mean he doesn't have significant problems - and actually, we were walking up the road with a friend of his yesterday and DS tried to hold his hand - so the inability to differentiate when it's appropriate to be affectionate is clearly becoming an issue (this is more a mental note to self to Do Something About That...).

The things other kids just 'get' - like we don't hold our friend's hands after a certain age - just doesn't happen with my DS.

I think you should read up, but you should also grab the support and interest offered with both hands. A brief browse on here will show you it is vanishingly rare to have both.

Only you can decide if you want to go down the diagnosis path, but I'd reiterate it's not 'labels' that cause autism, it's autism.

I don't get caught up in the whole 'people with asd don't like physical contact'. Everyone with asd is different, some seek physical contact and others avoid it. DS is a hugger. He hugs everyone including people he has only just met. School are supposed to be working on it but it's turning into a one woman mission for the deputy head as the other staff like his hugs. Deputy head tried to shake his hand at xmas but he hugged her instead

What I meant was that she loves cuddles and will hug and sit on my friends' laps even if she doesn't know them very well - she doesn't do it with strangers but is still very friendly with anybody who shows her attention. This, to me (bearing in mind I'm not v familiar with asd at all), doesn't match autistic traits?

OP, I know very little about ASD, so I'm not really qualified to comment. However, my friend's daughter has Aspergers and is one of the cuddliest kids I know - she loves to hug people and hold their hands, even if she doesn't know them too well. I have never noticed any lack of eye contact either. She is a charming and delightful kid, and definitely likes being around other people.

She does need support in school, though I believe that she is managing with less help as she grows older.