been told ds cant go to a ss even before his ehcp has been written

[kojackscat]

STILL waiting for ds's ehcp to get written. Mainstream school want him out, the have made it v clear they can't cope with his needs. However, I got an e mail today from the la telling me that the area has no ss provision, the next closest it over the border, in the next la, and is full anyway, so we need to look at local Ms schools.

Surely they cant say this till they have drafted his ehcp, which is when they will understand his needs. And if there is no appropriate ss school locally does he have to just go to local mainstream, or do they have to find him a suitable ss a bit further away?

Nope if he can't go to ms and he needs a ss then that's where he will have to go.
If the LA state that they want him in a ss then they will have to offer him a place somewhere.
Unfortunately they are not obliged to find you a ss if they feel that his needs can be met in ms with support. So you need to do the legwork and find him a school that you would like him to go to. I can be a maintained ss or an independent ss, both in or out of county.
It sounds like the LA will probably offer a ms school when the plan is done and then it's up to you to appeal for the school you want him to go to. It will then be up to them to prove that his needs can met in their choice and you prove that his needs can only be met in your choice.

I know where I want him to go, a ss about 7miles away, over in the next la.
Everyone I speak to seems to be obsessed about transport. Its the first thing they mention when I say I want an out of area school.
It seems like a really big deal, they all suck in their breath like a dodgy builder and say 'oooh, you wont get transport for that'.
I don't want transport, its only a 10-15 min drive, and dd goes to a school on the same town, so I do the school run that way every day anyway.

Why are they telling me it has to be ms, is it just a lie to save them money they would have to spend to send him out of area?

Probably money saving. It's usually much cheaper for children to be in ms with support.
When the draft EHCP arrives then you can name your choice of school. They will then send out the final copy which will either name your school (all fine) or will name their choice. This is when you can appeal.
They cannot usually refuse entry to a maintained ss because it is full so don't let that put you off.
You just need some assessments which state that your child's needs would be best met in a ss and not a ms school and then appeal to tribunal for the place.
And you will get transport if that school is the nearest one that can meet ALL of your child's needs.
They are trying to put you off.

How can they arbitrarily decide that he can't go to SS when they haven't even finished assessing his needs? Muppets.

If the school you want is the closest (and otherwise cheapest) that can meet his needs, then they need to provide transport. LA will clearly try to prove that MS can meet his needs, so I'm hoping you have lots of documentation (letters and emails) regarding the battles with current school (which, incidentally, can't shove him out simply for having needs they can't be arsed to try to meet, but I can fully understand not wanting to persist with a school with their attitude).

I'm expecting you will end up going to tribunal on this, at which point you will need to be able to offer evidence as to why any LA suggestion is unsuitable, while yours isn't.

I don't want transport,why is there such an emphasis on it.? I have to drive to that town for my dd, I can't get her to school on time if I have to be waiting in for a minibus. I think this transport issue is going to be a huge hurdle. I am a sahm, all I want to do is take my kids to school, and this keeps being put up as a barrier.
But I agree, ouryve, if they haven't finished assessing him yet, how can they say what he needs? Do you think it was an official decision, or just the sen officer talking off her own back? She did say that after she wrote the plan it would have to go to a panel to see if they accepted it or not. So surley it cant have been decided yet? She wants a meeting with school, us and all the professionals who had input to the assessment to talk it through. She also wants ds at the meeting, 'if appropriate' i told her he is 6, even an NT 6 year old wont sit through, and participate in a meeting of a group of adults in a council office, what is she thinking? Of course its not appropriate, silly woman!

Transport is a big thing for the LA because it's expensive for them. Taxi plus escort = ££££££
DS's transport costs approx 26k per year to his out of county ss so its a fairly huge chunk of money.
If you don't want transport then you can use this to your advantage if they start arguing over costs of the ss placement.
Nothing in special needs is official until it's in a statement or EHCP. She can't make an official decision if the assessments haven't been done and any decision that is made can be appealed. That is your right as a parent.
She's a loon if she thinks it appropriate to have a child at a meeting of professionals.
Don't expect a lot from a meeting to 'talk it through'. I've been to them myself when appealing DS's placement and all it did was raise my blood pressure. They will try and talk you round to their way of thinking.

Oh, sorry, its not just a meeting to 'talk it through' its a meeting to 'coproduce' the ehcp

Kojack that email is a really great bit of evidence. It will help you down the line to show that they were allowing the cost/availability of provision to determine the provision and then the difficulties - or the tail to wag the dog.

When it comes to the meeting just say you will get back to them on anything you are unsure of - don't let them rush you. You may want to take time to think about the implications of either parts or even the whole thing.

If you think dc needs a small class, a high staff to student ratio or a low distraction environment then don't let them think you have agreed to their version.

That said, the sooner you can get a final statement the sooner you can appeal.

If the ss is maintained by another LA you can still ask for it. 'Full' can be got round
Here is what IPSEA say about 'full'
Element Two incompatibility with the education of others
This is the test which is often referred to when a school is said to be “full”. However what the test requires, if it is to be used successfully by an LA, is that it is likely that adding just one more child to this school or other institution will create incompatibility with the education of others. This is not the same as showing that the addition of a child or young person will in some way impact upon the education of others. The test is whether the impact is so great that the child or young person attending the school or other institution would result in an incompatibility which cannot be resolved by the special educational provision being put in place as detailed in the EHC plan. The facts need to be examined in each case and this has been found by the courts to be a high bar.

Good Luck

A 6 year old at a multi agency meeting! No way. For one thing it would be damaging to his self - esteem to sit there while people discussed his difficulties.

Have you been to see the SS that you want? Make an appt to have a look round. They will be able to give you better info about places. It may be that there isn't a place now but there will be one in sept.

kojack have you had a statutory assessment? If not, what expert reports have been done?

The statutory assessment has been done, as in all the people who need to see him have, , and have submitted reports, but then we moved house to a new la. So, having had the reports sent to them in December, the new la finally want this coproducer meeting to write the ehcp, then send it to panel to see if we actually get it or not.
It seems an odd way of doing it, to my mind. I don't see the point in writing one for the panel if they are going to say no. I would have thought it would make more sense to let the panel consider the evidence, say yes or no to an ehcp, then let the la write it.

I'd do a draft of what you want in it. Just highlight all the bits in the reports that you want in the different sections. IPSEA is good on this if you have any doubts, but it sounds like you are already a veteran.

None of the reports suggest any provision. They just describe what the experts have seen. I still haven't seen all of them. The ep and camhs sent me copies of theirs,but I've not seen anything from the ot or the paed that they made him see. The school just detailed his history of exclusions and what they had tried to do to help
No one has made suggestions of what he needs, I thought that was what the la did.

This is taking soooo long, we really haven't progressed anywhere since the end of November.

You can try ringing the OT and paed and asking if you can have the reports.

They may say no, but if you don't ask...

I've called the council and asked for copies of everything, asap. I don't know what I'll get, lets wait and see...

Well, that was suspiciously easy. The LA just called and said they are putting all the documents in the post to me today.

I wonder if they will actually turn up?

Am I too suspicious????

I wouldn't necessarily burn your boats on transport yet. If they accept that there are no nearer schools that can meet your child's needs, or if the tribunal makes an order in favour of your choice of school, by law they have to provide transport. Bear in mind that if you agree to do it, you are stuck with it forever - you won't be able to go back to them when your dd leaves school to say it's no longer convenient, nor will you if, say, you were for any reason unable to drive any more.

At the meeting, point out (if the reports support it) that the plain fact is that ds has to go to a special school and the fact that your LA doesn't have enough special school provision really doesn't mean that they should just shove him in the mainstream: this is the nearest suitable school, that is where he should go. But be prepared for them to try to suggest he go to a mainstream school with a unit, or that everything will be fine with a bit of 1:1 support.

That's a good point about transport, Icimoi, I wasn't really thinking about the future.

my grandson got an emergency placement at a ss while ehcp was in progress. and the la and ss had to split costs of transport until sorted out.

I have asked for an emergency placement, tiredgranny. The HT told me that she had looked into it, and ds doesn't qualify. Apparently it is used for people who have just come into the country and other unspecified groups, not including my ds.

I actually believe her, cos she is desperate to get ds out of her school, and if she could manage to find him an emergency placement she would jump at the chance!

have u started the ehcp pathway yet? our co-ordinator arranged it. there is somewhere in education act that states every school age child is entitled to a suitable full time education environment that is suitable for them. can't remember if it 16 or 23. contact ipsea or coral children centre. they will have information.

Yes, tiredgranny. We submitted a request for assessment in July, under the old Statement system, but they deferred it until 1st Sept so its going through under the new ehcp system.

All was going well until December, when we moved house. The old LA sent all the paperwork to the new LA, who have done Jack f*all about it since they received it on 19th December.
I was content to wait, because ds was happy in ms school, but it has become v clear, since his 1-1 left, that they will not be replacing her, and this has had a terrible impact on him. He is being sent home regularly, finding it all really difficult, so now I want him in ss asap.

Sending him home is an illegal exclusion surely?

Yes, I know ohmygrood, but what can I do? I am keeping a record of the dates, not sure what else I can do.

We wanted our DS to go to a specialist indi school. We were told by everyone that we didn't stand a chance. We got it named but on the condition that we provide transport.