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Original poster

Melatonin in the Night

62 replies

Davros · 22/04/2004 22:34

This follows on from another thread that was in "Chat" but I thought it might get missed if I posted there.
I asked my Paed about giving my son Melatonin if he wakes in the night and wants to roar around like a race horse. He said yes, it would work and a good idea so go ahead and do it.
Silly sod hasn't noticed that we've never used Melatonin so far so I don't have any! Have emailed back to get some pronto!
Wahey, we dont' have a problem at bedtime but sometimes in the wee small hours.

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Jimjams · 22/04/2004 22:39

oh let me know how you get on. This is exactly the problem we have. I should contact our paed (who is crap though). Many thanks for this- very useful.

mrsforgetful · 23/04/2004 01:00

i'd be interested to know too- as tom and leigh have it at 8pm- for bed at 9- and we were told it wasn't any good for 'night wakers'....so i've been telling people this....so if you find it helps i'd like to tell our paed as she is the one who said it wasn't useful for that...god i'm rambling!!!

also with summer coming and me being off in the greenhouse it's not unusual for me to give them the melatonin.....then lose track of time and 2 hours later it's 10 o'clock- they're still up- fighting tiredness....yet past the bit when the melatonin REALLY kicks in....so i pack them off to bed and they take an hour or so to get to sleep.....so if you find the night dose works and doesn't affect the child the next day....then i'd feel ok 'topping them up' at 10pm.

Original poster
Davros · 23/04/2004 11:13

MrsF, my Paed said it would work at, say, 3am as it only lasts for about 4 hours! BTW "being off in the greenhouse" sounds like a euphemism for something naughty...... bonking the neighbour's son or popping down the boozer or.......

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Original poster
Davros · 23/04/2004 11:15

Sorry for my bad taste post! While I was making myself laugh an email came from the Paed and it says......

"Try 5 mg once or twice a night to start with - he may need 10 mg twice eventually. Try a small dose to start with."

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mrsforgetful · 23/04/2004 12:25

ref the green house....my post (before i corrected it) read...."whilst i'm fidling around in the greenhouse"....NOW THAT fits your way of thinking i bet!!!!!

Great about the dosage....basically what I do is get a 5mg prescription from the paed- and cos she insists she won't advise otherwise i then get 3mg capsules from america (using Ebay)....she knows i do this. I feel happier knowing what your paed said as he's saying even 10mg can be increased on- so i needn't 'lose sleep' (ha ha ha....!) over mine maybe having 8mg!

As tom is on methylphenidate he needs more melatonin- leigh is knocked for 6 exactly 30 mins after 3mg! He's not 'officially' on melatonin (paed knows i give it though) and what mad e me try was when he said he was jealous of Alex who lies still and goes to sleep- Both tom and leigh toss and turn endlessly....and leighs the one that even when asleep slleeps in a rigid way often on his tummy with knees bent and lower leg/feet raised...and usually head bent back.

Original poster
Davros · 03/05/2004 19:25

A quick update. I collected the Melatonin last Monday only to find that its tablets Does anyone get liquid in the UK? The pharmacist in the hospital insisted that its not available as liquid in the UK. A friend has agreed to bring me back some liquid from the USA next time she goes (which is quite often). The tablets are 5mg each. So far we've given 5mg in the early hours (no effect), 10mg in the early hours (minimal effect). Then a friend whose son woke in the night but had no trouble getting to sleep at bedtime said still give it at bedtime. So, the last 2 nights we have given 10mg at bedtime and another 10mg if he wakes in the early hours and it does seem to have worked BUT he hasn't had to get up for school. The only way we can administer it is to crush it up in the pestle and mortar and put it into juice but that means he may not always get all of it. He is 8.5 yrs and quite hefty, borderline normal weight. Any advice or observations from those of you with more experience?

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luckymum · 03/05/2004 22:04

Davros - don't know anything about melatonin but my dd takes several different tablets. You can buy a pill - crusher from the pharmacist (sorry more expense!) , crush them and dissolve in a little water and give with a syringe (also from the chemist) - more likely to get the 'full' dose.

Chocol8 · 03/05/2004 22:08

This thread is great timing as I have been thinking about asking the consultant for some for my ds. He is up with the lark and like tonight, cannot sleep. When he does sleep, he's out for the count, but it's getting him to that stage which is the hard part!

If I gave it to him at say 7pm and put him to bed at 8pm (usual for a school night), would he fall asleep soon after do you think?

Sorry, Melatonin virgin asking simple questions!

treacletart · 03/05/2004 22:32

dont know what dosage of melatonin you're after but you can buy special milk thats taken from cows milked at nighttime thats supposed to contain larger amounts of the stuff and therefore enduce sleep - no I'm not kidding honest! - serously I bought it in Waitrose, "sleepy" pr "slumber" milk cant remember exact name - anyway swear a little before bedtime made some difference to my ds (9m). They've been Mumsnet threads about it before ... might be worth a shot..

Jimjams · 04/05/2004 10:09

liquid would be easier for us as well. Maybe I should just buy some from the states......

Original poster
Davros · 04/05/2004 11:51

There is NO WAY my son would drink milk of any sort, even from sleepy cows or take anything from a syringe!! I think liquid is the answer, just wondered if its available in the UK or not. Chocol8, I think your plan sounds like the sort of thing most people do. You will have to get Melatonin on prescription though and my Pead said only from him not GP! OR get some from the USA if you can.

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mrsforgetful · 04/05/2004 12:21

FInally....a thread where I can help!!!!

We have melatonin capsules- its brilliant as you simply pull the capsule apart then add to any drink....a small drink is better then they get the full dose relatively quickly. It can also be sprinked on food.
The powder is so fine that it dissolves completely- unlike a tablet that when crushed leaves a residue in the bottom.

chocol8... we give 5mg to leigh and 7.5mg to tom at 7.30/8pm and both are asleep by 9.....sometimes if after giving it bedtime gets delayed....i 'top' thomas up with another 2.5mg- he then will be sleep within 20/30mins.

it really is THAT good!

as far as 'hang over effect' we've found no real problem- however we have never given it after 11pm....so cannot comment on say a dose at 1am and how long it takes to wear off.

yes a GP CANNOT prescribe it- so need to refer maybe to the specialist that Diagnosed your son?
however....people sell it on ebay- and it's way cheaper than buying direct from shops online- ofcourse.....if you know someone over there that can buy it then that's even better!!!(i get 1mg,3mg and 5mg to use with the 2.5mg the paed prescribes....this way i can be very exact in the dosing- as its amazing how leigh will be fine with 2.5mg most nights then if we've had a change to routine he is still restless an hour after so he has another 1mg and he is asleep within 20 mins.

Loobie · 04/05/2004 13:44

I get it for ds who is 8.He gets a 3 mg capsule which i open up and put on a spoon with a little sugar,he gets it 1/2 hour before bed and is usually out like a light,if not he gets another 3mg 1 1/2 hours later.

Loobie · 04/05/2004 13:45

Forget to add we get it from our paed but she is going to ask our g.p if he would be willing to take over the prescribing of it.Oh and we have no morning after effects either.

mrsforgetful · 04/05/2004 16:21

loobie- would be great to know if the GP agrees- let us know!

Original poster
Davros · 04/05/2004 19:47

Thanks for all the info everyone. Would you believe, last night we decided not to give any at bedtime as he doesn't usually have a problem getting to sleep. He was asleep by 8.30pm and slept through until 7.00am today!! I think we need to form some sort of routine to how, when and if we give it, its a bit random at the moment but then so is his night-time waking.....

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Original poster
Davros · 07/05/2004 11:42

An update! I got a bottle of liquid Melatonin from my friend. Its lovely, a nice bottle, cherry flavor with a dropper and it says add to juice or your favorite beverage (gone American)! Soooo much easier than those effing tablets. Didn't give him any at bedtime, although he's been so vile for the last couple of days I was tempted to do anything to knock him out! Funnily enough, since being vile he has slept very well. So he went to bed and fell asleep no problem. Heard a noise at about 2.10am but I fell asleep again. Heard another noise an hour later so he had probably been awake all that time but quiet. I gave him half a carton of juice with 10mg (4 drops) and he was out like a light........ only until 7.10am though but that could have been the baby having a scream.

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mrsforgetful · 07/05/2004 19:01

Excellent!!! Where did she get it....US i bet!!!!
Laughs about the 'vile' bit....we love them so much but GOD they really know what buttons to push!!! (though really they probably have no idea!!!!) ....wonder if i could threaten melatonin next time i get spat in the face by thomas?

If ever i heard that melatonin was being 'stopped' i would spend all our DLA money on it every month to make sure for life i had it in the cupboard!!!!!

I know you have the baby- but do you find that though your child is asleep due to melatonin....that YOU are restless....as you simply are not used to sleeping more than an hour at a time?

Chocol8 · 07/05/2004 22:39

Blimey! This stuff sounds wonderful to me, especially as Mrsforgetful would spend all her DLA on it!!!

Must get me some. Have left a message for the consultant and should hopefully see her at the end of May....fingers crossed.

mrsforgetful · 07/05/2004 23:27

chocol8- it really is fantastic- when we were offered it i was almost so desparate i was going to ask for sleeping tablets for thomas- but i felt so guilty about it. at the time i felt i wanted him to sleep for my sake- i had not had a night of unbroken sleep for 9 years- and since he was about 6 he had not got to sleep before midnight most nights- i hated going to bed before he was asleep as he was quite destructive and 'a danger to himself'- what i was not prepared for was the knockon effect the sleep brought with it- he was happier and able to focus more at school- though must say he still had ADHD and still Aspergers .... i say that as deep down i had this notion that 'all his problems would dissapear' as aoon as he got into a pattern of good restful sleep....this was because people kept telling me 'all he needs is a good night's sleep'....looking back it was around the dx of AS...and i was still 'in denial'....let me know how you get on....i've not spoken to anyone who reports badly on it.
Davros is even using it during the night...i am going to report that to our paed as she thought it could only be given 'at bedtime....before 11/12'....it does feel like a magic wand- .....7.30 Melatonin- 8pm bed- 8.30 SLEEP!!!!

mrsforgetful · 16/07/2004 13:17

fantastic davros.....i was so dissapointed for you when you had no result....i helped someone the other day who'd given up to....their paed had advised 2.5mg...and her son is on 30mg ritalin daily....i explained that when tom was on 36mg his melatonin was 7.5mg....she contacted her paed he looked it up and advised her 5mg-2.5mg top up if needed....she cannot believe the difference.

Leigh is now 'officialy' prescribed it....as i begged the paed that i was sick of 'sneakily' getting it from the US....it's not even the cost so much...i just felt bad that i was 'self medicating'

Definitely no dependancy here......though i wonder if the hormone does eventually get to be produced naturally...like seratonin in depression....or is it that if you are not producing melatonin ....then you never will....so rather than being addicted (ie you cannot live without it) its more a case that you do end up taking it for life...if you want to sleep...just like someone with diabetes has to use insulin....a different way of looking at it i hope for anyone worried about it

Original poster
Davros · 16/07/2004 21:20

MrsF, were you getting liquid from the USA? The "proper" sites like drugstore.com won't ship it to the UK. It can be bought on Ebay but tablets only. I've got tablets already from the Paed but the liquid is sooooo much better. Various Americans on an EGroup I belong to have offered to send it but they probably shouldn't really...

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Original poster
Davros · 17/07/2004 01:24

I thought I had told everyone about our failure with Melatonin but I can't find it.
Anyway, BIG update. I went to see Paediatrician on Thurs and took the liquid Melatonin I got from the USA with me. He confirmed what my DH had discovered only the night before, after almost giving up with it altogether. DH had read the bottle wrong and told me to give 2 DROPS for 5mg........ should have been two DROPPERS!!! WOrks a treat now

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Jimjams · 17/07/2004 01:31

aha so how long did he take to go back to sleep. Did you order it from the states? I'm wondering whether to get some before our holiday. The ony thing holding me back is a fear that he might become reliant on it (holidays are abnormally bad). Do you know whether that can happen?

Loobie · 17/07/2004 01:59

Jimjams we were told that it isn't a drug that causes dependance and can be stopped at any time though obviouosly it's probable that the sleep would stop too.
Our update is that yes our G.P agreed to take over the prescription of melatonin so it is easier to get the prescription but we have found it quite difficult to get the script filled ,if you give boots notice they can order the drugs in or if you agree to go to them all the time they will keep supplies in for you.