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DD turned down for place at chosen school.. Help to appeal

33 replies

Toots38 · 10/02/2015 16:02

Bugger. We chose a brilliant school for DD to start in Sept. But she has been turned down. The school say they are full. It's out of borough, but we live on the border. Our local SN school is not suitable because of her communication and health needs. This has been agreed by therapists working with DD.
Our LA are taking ages to provide me with info.. We are being pushed to send her to the local unsuitable SN school.
What can I do. How do I appeal to our school of choice? A general plea for help!

OP posts:
adrianna22 · 10/02/2015 16:08

Even if the school says it full. You can still appeal for your child to be placed in the school.

ouryve · 10/02/2015 16:15

If you have a statement for her, you can appeal part 4 to the SEND tribunal. Similarly, you can appeal the relevant part (can't remember which letter it is) of an EHCP. i can't remember if you need to go through mediation for this part before you appeal, though.

There's an outline of what to do here:
www.ipsea.org.uk/what-you-need-to-know/challenging-decisions

ouryve · 10/02/2015 16:19

Just checked - no need for mediation.

senvet · 10/02/2015 16:45

Always appeal parts 2 3 and 4 (or EHCP equivalent letters).
You can make an appeal smaller later, but it is much harder to make it bigger!

If your chosen school is independent then it CAN refuse to let your child in and the Tribunal cannot over rule it. But ask where dc is on the waiting list as things are still settling down, and getting a feel for how likely a place is to pop up is important.

If it is maintained, then yes, the Tribunal can insert an extra child in. Even if that means going over the statutory maximum of 30 in a key satge 1 class (probably irrelevant in your case).

So now it is time to find out what the class sizes are for all the classes through the chosen school, and also what their maximum number of pupils in the school is, and how far under or over that figure they are.

Having done some groundwork, you may want to have a meeting with them to find out whether they would contest an appeal on the argument that 'one more squeezed in cannot make so much difference'. Obviously if your dc's statement comes with a full time one to one added in, then they may actually be quite happy to have an extra pair of hands around. OR they may say that the physical size of the class and the distraction of not one but two extra people would affect the learning of the others.

The other big job is to find alternative schools. There is a real risk that a popular school will convince a Tribunal that they really cannot take another kid, and you don't want to be left with nothing but the LA's choice as the only thing in front of the Tribunal. So I am afraid a good deal of far-and-wide hunting may be needed.
If your new-chosen alternative is independent and vastly more expensive than your old-chosen school, then you may find a place suddenly opens up in your old-chosen 'full' school. It happens.

You will also want evidence to show why the LAs option is not able to meet dc's needs.

With luck, it will be things about the school environment that they simply cannot change eg classes too big and noisy etc.

Otherwise it will be that one lot of staff are just better geared up to do the job than the other. You can ask for a table of qualifications, courses attended and experience etc for both the LA choice and your choice(s). Then there are the OFSTED reports, the SEN policies and a comparison of the other kids in the class and their difficulties (noisy?) - you can ask for this evidence from both schools in general terms, just not personal details.

The frustration really is that a good school will set out all the things that they think dc needs, and then the LA will promptly claim that their school can change to do all of that.

One compelling way to crank up the pressure is to have your own indie expert(s) visit the LA school and pronounce on its inability to meet dc's needs. Ideally they would visit your chosen school(s) and give their views as well. Pricey and no guarantee that it is 100% effective.

Well that is a long old post, but I hope it gets you started.

Don't give up - your gut instinct is likely to be right, which makes fighting for it the right thing to do.

Good Luck

fairgame · 10/02/2015 17:33

What Senvet said ^^
If it's an independent school then they can refuse on for being full for a maintained school cannot.
Definitely appeal 2,3 and 4 rather than just 4 (my solicitor advised me to do this when i appealed). Make sure that the info in parts 2 and 3 make your DD's needs and provision very clear so that its easy to argue that her needs can only be met at your choice of school.
Good luck Flowers

Toots38 · 10/02/2015 17:34

Great. Thanks for the informative responses.
I've been told I need to sign the EHCP, return it and then I have an right to appeal.
In the meantime I will look at the ipsea website and start preparing arguments against the local schools.
I really don't want to look for another school ( a small childish foot stamp) ... But I see we may have to.
Thanks again for the quick responses. No point being angry about the decision I need to be proactive !

OP posts:
senvet · 10/02/2015 17:58

well done toots. Remember to check the waiting list thing just in case

adrianna22 · 10/02/2015 22:46

Ah! Thanks for correcting me fairgame and Senvet, I should of explained it properly.

OP, is the school independent or maintained?

I can understand your disappointment, DS recently got turned down for my chosen school for him. Till I found another good school that I think can meet his needs perfectly! Grin But he will have to be assessed before entry. So this time, I'm preparing myself and looking at alternative schools, incase this one turns DS down.

Don't worry too much OP.

Good luck.

IsabellaofFrance · 11/02/2015 07:57

The EHCP does need to be finalised before you can appeal.

Are you happy with the needs and provision in section B and F? If you are then you only need to appeal section I, you wont have to go to mediation.

I agree with Ouryve. Get your appeal forms ready so that once you have the letter you can appeal. Tribunal will give you a date 20 weeks (ish) away so you have time to do the groundwork. If its possible for you, I would try and engage an independent Ed Psych, you can ask on here for recommendations in your area.

Toots38 · 11/02/2015 10:02

Right, I'm getting my head round this. If someone could just have a quiet word with my DD and tell her that she needs to sleep for more than 30 mins every four hours to get over her partially collapsed lung now we are home from hospital, I'd be very grateful.
adrianna22 the school is a state SN school. Dd needs to attend an SN school because of her communcation, medical and physical needs. We flirted with the idea of mainstream and visited one or two,but the classes and the set ups ares not compatible with her needs.
isabellaoffrance I have been told it does need to be finalised. Hmm. Also been told to leave section I blank, just staring SN provision school needed, not a specific name. I've queried this with our LA.
I'm soooooo suspicious of them . We've had so many shady dealings in the past and a few therapists have mentioned that the school team have said privately that DD could just attend the local SN school,even though we have said categorically no.

OP posts:
ouryve · 11/02/2015 10:29

No named school is one of the things that you can appeal.

Under EHCP, the range of schools that the LA must consider is wider than for statements, too.

9.78 The child’s parent or the young person has the right to request a particular school, college or other institution of the following type to be named in their EHC plan:

• maintained nursery school
• maintained school and any form of academy or free school (mainstream or special)
• non-maintained special school
• further education or sixth form college
• independent school or independent specialist colleges (where they have been approved for this purpose by the Secretary of State and published in a list available to all parents and young people)

9.79 If a child’s parent or a young person makes a request for a particular nursery, school or post-16 institution in these groups the local authority must comply with that preference and name the school or college in the EHC plan unless:
• it would be unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or SEN of the child or young person, or
• the attendance of the child or young person there would be incompatible with the efficient education of others, or the efficient use of resources

Efficient education means providing for each child or young person a suitable, appropriate education in terms of their age, ability, aptitude and any special educational needs they may have. Where a local authority is considering the appropriateness of an individual institution, ‘others’ is intended to mean the children and young people with whom the child or young person with an EHC plan will directly come into contact on a regular day-to-day basis.

Toots38 · 11/02/2015 10:37

In the refusal letter from the school it quotes that her attendance would be incompatible with the efficient education of the children she would be educated with.
Have they covered themselves from any appeal within this wording?

OP posts:
ouryve · 11/02/2015 10:43

Possibly. I think you need to look around other schools (especially expensive ones), build a shit hot case as to why the school they're proposing is unsuitable (which is why the needs and provision to meet those needs have to be up to scratch - specified and, where appropriate, quantified).

fairgame · 11/02/2015 13:59

This is from IPSEA regarding LA's using the incompitable with education of others excuse.

"Element Two – incompatibility with the education of others
This is the test which is often referred to when a school is said to be “full”.
However what the test requires, if it is to be used successfully by an LA, is that it is likely that adding just one more child to this school or other institution will create incompatibility with the education of others. This is not the same as showing that the addition of a child or young person will in some way impact upon the education of others. The test is whether the impact is so great that the child or young person attending the school or other institution would result in an incompatibility which cannot be resolved by the special educational provision being put in place as detailed in the EHC plan. The facts need to be examined in each case and this has been found by the courts to be a high bar."

It's up to the LA to prove this excuse and not for you to disprove it. Would you be able to apply for legal aid at all and get a solicitor onside? If not then run it by IPSEA and see if they recommend you go for it or look for somewhere else. Either way have a backup just in case. If you go for an expensive independent school then the LA might magically discover a place for DD afterall Wink

Icimoi · 11/02/2015 14:11

There's case law that effectively makes it pretty difficult for a mainstream school to claim successfully that taking a child with a statement is incompatible with the efficient education of others. Have a look at Bury v SU

senvet · 11/02/2015 14:33

Agree with all the above
Do NOT go with a type of school
No. nononono No!
You could name your 'full' school - and, as I said above, knowing how full it actually is could be relevant.

You can also put in your reasons for appeal an alternative case eg
'If the Tribunal do find that the first choice school cannot educate dc because it would be incompatible with the education of others then we ask the Tribunal to name second choice school'

And set out your reasons for why that meets dc's needs.

Special school -v- special school cases are won and lost on quality of evidence.

The LA will tend to say that their SN choice can do anything the other school can, so it can be quite a lot of work to show that it can't.

But if you don't ask you don't get

Toots38 · 11/02/2015 15:33

Ok got it. I'll get a named school on the EHCP.
I've found a promising back up school we are going to see in a few weeks, but it's about an hours drive in good traffic from our house. Which is triple the distance and driving time of our number 1 school.
Thanks fairgame that's an interesting read. I keep trying IPSEA hopefully I'll get through soon.

OP posts:
corkysgran · 11/02/2015 21:23

Hi OP this is similar to our case. DGS was turned down for first choice school on the same grounds. The LA wanted their brand new 'specialist ASD' school. We went to Tribunal and the panel (three women of a certain age) actually said that one more child would make no difference at all. They wiped the floor with the HT of the new school, went through her qualifications and experience etc. DD and I had been worried as we didn't have a lawyer but the panel did our work for us. They granted everything we asked for. DGS is in Yr 1 now, very happy and doing well. It was absolutely worth all the stress.This board is your greatest resource.

SENVET
You are a great addition, will probably need you advice soon, awaiting draft EHCP now.

corkysgran · 11/02/2015 21:33

Forgot to say it would have been a lot lrss stressful if we'd had a back up school but our only option would have been to move to a different LA.

StarlightMcKenzee · 12/02/2015 13:04

senvet Must a school take a child if they are an academy if a tribunal orders it or a LA insists?

StarlightMcKenzee · 12/02/2015 13:34

Or if the parents are requesting a place in a unit/base which is a part of an academy?

ouryve · 12/02/2015 14:55

Academies, free schools and non-maintained special schools are on an equal footing with LA maintained schools under the new SENCOP - see the list above. It used to be that you could only make a case for schools that aren't LA maintained, but since almost all secondary schools (and quite a few special schools) are academies, in some areas, that had to change, even if nothing else did.

ouryve · 12/02/2015 14:56

sorry - that you could only "make representations for"

senvet · 12/02/2015 15:13

corky thank you, but you can see the expertise of our and fair as well.
ici and polter when they pop up.
Sorry anyone I should have added but I am useless with names.

We may all be doing/have done the same IPSEA online learning course....

So three huge cheers for IPSEA

ouryve · 12/02/2015 15:59

They're fab, aren't they?