Calls to collect DS during the school day. What if I say 'no'?

[kojackscat]

Occasionally, school phone me to collect DS from school before he is supposed to finish.

This is because he has got so upset that he becomes violent, and they cant control him.
However, by the time I get there he is calm again.

I don't know if I am collecting him to stop others getting hurt, or as a punishment.

The school know that I want proper exclusion letters on each occasion, but often t is about 45 mins before the end of his day,(he finishes at 2.30 anyway, the rest of the school finishes at 3.15) so they don't do it officially.

They say that this is because they would have to exclude him for the whole of the next day as well, if it was official.

So, I have had to leave my job to deal with this. I have been off work for 14 months. (well, I work a couple of hours after school, but its not enough)
Financially, I need to go back to work.

So if I get a job, can I say No if they ask me to collect him?
I am not sure if they are taking advantage of the fact that they know I am at home and can be there at the drop of the hat.

Can they make it an official exclusion, so I would HAVE to collect him?
Do they have that power, to make me not work, so I have to be around for them?
I want to know where I stand, legally, if I get a job. Obviously, I would loose the job quite quickly if I kept leaving to collect DS, so can I say NO to the school?

thanks

This is an illegal exclusion.

They need to make it official.

Are they making reasonable adjustments for his SEN?

Sounds like they need a review of his EHCP / statement. Or if he doesn't have one, he needs one!

We are waiting on an EHCP, its a very slow process.

They do try to cope with him, I know he can be very aggressive. My only issue is that they do obviously manage, somehow, to calm him down, because by the time I get there, he is calm.

If they do make it legal, by issuing me with a letter, can they insist I collect at a moments notice?

I don't know the answer as far as legality is concerned. The school DS goes to is a specialist school. If a child has a total melt down as you describe they can be "internally excluded" (basically they are in solitary, with a member of staff) a lot of the children come a fair distance and travel in by taxi etc (we live over twenty miles away) so I just don't see how it is possible for parents to just drop everything. If it's not "official" I don't see how it can be enforced either. I think you should speak to school in more depth and your local parent partnership would be worth a call too. It does sound like the school call you because they "can".

I don't know the legal situation. Could IPSEA advise? The helpline of SOSSEN may helpful. We had a similar situation when ds was in infants (and it was impossible for me to work) and SOSSEN helped me. At the time my understanding was that having regular short hours was acceptable, during a period of adjustment or as a management method for additional needs to allow access to education, (ie missing the noisy start and end to the day for children who struggle with noise) but irregular exclusions were not - but it may be different now. I think you need advice. My instinct is that support systems could and should be put into place to manage difficulties in school hours - by the education system.

By the way, keep a record of every time you have to collect ds early - as evidence for the EHCP that your child support needs.

Thanks everyone. I do have a record of the times he is being sent home. This academic year ut is far less than last, but I really would live to find a job, during school hours. I have been offered a few opportunities by people I used to work with, but have said no due to the fear of letting them down if I have to keep going in to school

How old is DC?
I would be tempted to tell the school that you need to get a job and that they will have to manage on their own or with the help of LA social services from here on out. They should be meeting his needs, not leaning on you to do part of the job for them.
Ridiculous!

I helped a kid aged then about 12 who kept getting excluded. The SENCO said 'if only the mum would give up work to look after her son it would all be sorted'. I didn't know where to begin in telling her how wrong she was.
Mum (why mum) will sort (how) his SEN (with her 5 O'levels and experience at the meat counter in Sainsbury's?)

She also said 'you'll never get him assessed. I have kids far worse than him who are refused assessment'. Well we got indie assessments, saw an LA special school we really liked which was full, applied for an expensive indie special school, got a place in the (full!!) LA special school.

Outbursts ceased and he is now in his early twenties and has worked full time every day since he left school.

Unmet SEN often cause aggressive behaviour or depression, or both.

Understanding the SEN and meeting them can make the difference between a successful independent adult and a dependent adult.

Hope this helps

Tell school you are hoping to work during school hours and how do they intend to meet ds needs when you will not be able to collect him earlier than 2.30/3pm?. Will he have access to a TA, a quiet room, one to one? What strategies will they put in place to help him stay calm in the afternoon? How can you help to help them (do their job) meet ds needs? I did this (only 1 day a week at first - I worked weekends) and school who were sending ds home at lunch time had to find a way on that day, and gradually integrated him the rest of the time. Good luck!

They're talking nonsense saying they'd have to exclude him the next day if they do a formal exclusion close to the end of the day. There is absolutely nothing in the guidance that suggests that.

I suggest you tell them that you refuse to collect him unless they have an exclusion letter ready for you.

Has he got a statement/EHC plan? If he hasn't I suggest you ask for an EHC needs assessment immediately. If he has, I suggest you ask for an early review because clearly the support isn't enough to meet his needs.

I think you need to review the provision. If they cannot cope with him then does he need a setting that can cope with him? I would explain to the school that this cannot continue. Ask for exclusion letter each time so you can start to gather the evidence you need for a change of placement or increase in support. I have two ds with Asd and I work full time. It is a nightmare for all sorts of reasons, but there is no way I would be going to pick them up early every day. The expectation that people can afford to give up work if they have children with special needs pisses me off. I am constantly met with surprise when I can't make meetings or endless useless appointments.

This is all only temporary, I hope. He did have 1-1, but that was withdrawn 2 weeks ago. They now fully admit that they are just 'holding' him till the EHCP is is place, with, hopefully, a special school named on it.

However, we expected the draft ehcp on 1st Dec, still waiting, due to moving LAs part way through. So I could just sit it out a few more months, but I really want a job NOW
I know I'll never be able to go back to full time working, he could not cope with breakfast or after school clubs, I just would love to be able to work a few hours during the school day.

DH works 7 days a week to make ends meet, I work 2 hours after school, in a job I hate, so we never all get to spend any time together, DH is either at work or looking after the kids whilst I work, so he never gets any down time.

I sit in the house all day, wishing I could work, then as soon as DH finishes work and the kids finish school, I'm off to work.
Its so demoralising.

Sorry for the huge self pity post!

Icimoi,
So if they have a formal letter waiting for me, they can insist I collect him immediately, is that what you mean?

They can ask you to collect him immediately, but they have to be reasonable about it - for instance, if you are two hours away they obviously can't expect you to appear magically. In your position I'd be tempted to say I was two hours away anyway.

But the reality is that if they have to go through all the faff of exclusion letters there's a reasonable chance that they won't be quite so keen to demand that you collect DS and will find a way to cope. Not only is it inconvenient to produce the letters, but they have to notify the LA and I think it can count against them in some circumstances. Also they have to give you notice of your right to ask the governors to review each exclusion, and it might be worth taking them up on that - it would be a further deterrent to them, and you can reasonably point out that it is unlawful discrimination to punish your child for something that is the direct result of his disability and they should be doing more to meet his needs.

Another call today. I put my best 'defiant' face and told them that they were sending him home due to their inability to provide the correct support for him. They agreed, but said when he hurts others they have no other choice. They fully admit they cant cope, and are just waiting for the ehcp to get him into a special school.

I said I was looking for a job, they said they would still call if he hurt, so I think I may as well turn down the interview, there is no point in wasting everyone's time.

NO nononono,
Go for the interview, get the job, and make them perform. If they found funding for the 1 to 1 before then they can find it again

Tell them to go to the la for emergency funding or to put him in the special school or a PRU as an emergency placement.

They need to buck up.

Why did they withdraw that 1:1 when he clearly needs it?

Think my phone would be on silent and I would 'miss' the calls.

As long as they have an alternative number to call (someone who will call if he has an accident etc who can call you.) then don't answer.

Turn up at pick up 'oblivious' to the call having been out.

If you're not as devilish as me then plan b :

I would ensure that if they phone to collect him and you do, you immediately email in getting home the head and senco cc'ing in the sen case officer at LA and sen govenor that once again you have collected him due to xyz and this is 1 an illegal exclusion and 2 showing the seriousness of situation and that they urgently review his case as it is clear that school cannot meet his needs.

Good luck and keep records of everything.

We went through this. Dh couldn't work because of ds being kept part time and we ended up financially screwed which has caused us long term problems. They eventually decided to permanently exclude anyway as they felt that help would be provided more quickly if they did so
Definitely do what pinkponies suggested and email the LA every time this happens.

I called the SEN team at the LA to see if we can speed up the ehcp. Got an answerphone message, they are not taking calls today, leave my number and someone will call back, but not today!

The 1-1 funding was always temporary, I'm surprised they made it last so long, he has it for 4 terms and 2 weeks of this term. Each half term they said it was about to end, then found more for another half term. So I didn't really believe when they said it this time. But this time it was true

The law says that the LA is responsible for giving full time education that meets dc's SEN

If they managed that number of terms of 1 to 1 and have now withdrawn it then either dc has magically got better or they are failing to comply with the law,
and of course they are failing to comply with the law.

If you don't have an appeal/court case going you could try the local radio/telly/newspaper/MP/council bod.

Or possibly look at legal aid in the name of dc via lawyers - Maxwell Gillot are usually recommended - to force them to comply with the law.

The solicitors write a letter warning that the LA could end up in court if they don't get on with it, and that letter goes to LA Legal department - so it can shake up the SEN department.

Good Luck

Thanks, but they have 20 weeks to get the ehcp done. We moved after about 16 weeks, so the new la have an unspecified time to arrange it.( the sencop is vague on the actual time, it says they should do it 'quicker than usual') so I doubt we would get anywhere with legal actions until that time is up.

Fair point!

But they still have emergency funding available and owe dc full time education, so maybe MP?
Also the old code had an option for emergency placements pending assessment etc, I'd need to check if it is still in the new one