Outreach worker wants to implement a workstation and TEACCH. No, no, no, no!

[adrianna22]

How can I convince school that TEACCH or a work station wouldn't be appropriate for DS now.

Sorry was meant to put - if the school is implementing their way (which is proving not to be working) and not taken into any account of my ideas ( which has worked with DS at home) etc.

Not because of immaturity as such, just that if he doesn't have the right level of support now around his communication skills, he would regress and he has.

Plus around year one it's more sitting by your desks sort of thing. I guess if they start off with little targets ( which they are doing now) and build it up by have a few sessions on the work stations, a few mins a day, that's fine.

But, at the moment, the targets that are set for DS are not working. For example, one of the targets are to use pictures with DS to extend his attention. That is not working for DS as he doesn't understand pictures and is not interested . So I tell them the reason and the strategies I use at home that seem to be working to be with him.

Now for our next IEP meeting, the school then tells me that they haven't implemented the strategies I suggested and are now suggesting that he should be on the workstation using the actual TEACCH approach. Even though I told them that the previous targets weren't working because of X Y Z.

Plus, seeing a huge regression in his communication skills, as the school have not been working on this.

When I asked them does the workstation/TEACCH programme work on communication skills too there reply was "not really- it helps gives them structure...".

I mean what am I suppose to do, it breaks my heart that DS is regressing socially, yes education is important but communication is way more important than the academics.

zzzz- I appreciate your help and everyone else's. The word 'stick' was used lightly and not to cause offence.

I just don't think some people are understanding my point of view.

The comment about "MY child..", was uncalled for as we all take our time from our duties to give advice on this forum ( including myself), so I'm rather upset by that comment.

I don't think this is discussion is going to well at all. I'm going to ask Mumsnet to delete this thread.

My DS is very compliant too but he would still need full time 1-to-1 in MS. It is not about being compliant but he would need help to access the curriculum.

I am not that parent who sits back either. Look at my posting history on SN, I appealed a refusal to assess, complained about waiting times for autism assessments in my NHS Trust, complained about my LA's illegal practices - resulting in additional funding for autism in my NHS and in my LA there has been a restructure in management which has been noticed by schools. I am very proactive in helping my DS with several iniatives at home.

However, I believe most professionals have years of training and experience and I am willing to give their ideas a try. Lots of advocates of ABA say that it should be used as an approach because of the reams of evidence to support its effectiveness - there is lots of research on both this and TEACCH.

But I save my combativeness for real battles. You are approaching this in a dogmatic manner and if you respond to the people involved with your child with the same aggression you have displayed to some of the people trying to help you, then you are going to get people's backs up. By all means be an advocate for your child but suggesting that posters are 'that parent' is offensive.

Like zzzzz I, too, am bowing out of this thread.

JJXM- Those were the schools words, not mine, his not getting any one to one, that's what I'm currently disputing about.

Me? Aggressive? That's not my personality at all and I do not come across that way when I speak to professionals. How can you judge me from just knowing me from what I've written on my posts?

I wasn't suggesting anything and I did it mean it like that all. I think everyone on here is strong, brave and doing the best for their child. I go on this thread as it motivates me to fight for my child- without this thread, I really don't know what I'll do.

I'm really upset actually. I didn't mean to cause offence to anyone at all.

Just to make it clear.

I am willing to listen to professionals advice and I have given them a try. I didn't decline the work station.

When DS was at nursery, they did the whole TEACCH with him and the nursery had specialist knowledge of autism and I trusted their judgement completely. But DS regressed very badly and I guess my experience came from that and seeing that I 'failed him' some how.

Things could be different, but I was worried that he may regress again.

I'll give the workstation a try and suggest some targets, but I would like the school to listen to my suggestions too.

I'm sorry if I caused offence to anyone. It's very hard to know someone's tone of words when your reading something and I didn't mean to sound aggressive, that's far from the person I am.

Sorry you are upset, I was just trying to show you a successful use of a workstation. Forums can be tricky, the written word can come across very different to what we intended.

In our case the professionals didn't recommend the use of the workstation when it was first suggested by the SENCO in y1. They worked on other strategies first with no success . Removing him from the classroom to a quiet place was the only thing that worked I'm afraid, so when the workstation was finally put in place in y3 we welcomed it with open arms.
DS has 1:1 and they simplify the language and keep him on task. I'm afraid I don't know how well a workstation without that level of support would work.
The OT wants to try ear defenders next. I'm a bit worried about it to be truthful but I want to give them a chance to see if they work.

His EHCP says he needs a mentor and a "safe haven". To be honest I doubt the effectiveness of these two strategies with DS but we are just going to give them a go, we might be surprised.

Good luck with your appeal by the way.

Thanks Tamaboy for the reply.

My comments weren't directed at you. Also, thanks for telling me about your boys experience of the workstation. It's helpful hearing other peoples experiences and I'm glad it worked for your DS I guess I just didn't want to relive the experience of what my DS went through in nursery. But I'm willing to try anyway.

I'm sure your DS will be fine, I guess it's the fear of the unknown. Does your DS have issues with sound? Have you ever tried listening therapy? I've heard many mums talk about this and it seemed to work for their children.

Ask them in what way a TEACCH workstation supports inclusion?

Ask why they want a child with social communication problems to get practice of accessing their education through inanimate objects instead of through people.

Don't say 'no, no, no' just ask them the questions they can't answer. i.e. please can you show me the evidence that supports a child in a mainstream school catching up with their peers through the use of a workstation etc.

Ask for evidence of any kind in a mainstream school system.

Ask for their qualifications in TEACHH, and that of the rest of the school (TEACHH does have some evidence-base but not in the way it is used in most mainstream schools)

You can also ask, in writing, the precise reasons for the recommendation of a workstation for your child.

You may get responses such as 'Children with ASD are visual learners' where you can immediately ask them for the evidence of that as well as the evidence that your child fits this stereotype.

The same with the others:

likes routine
needs independence

etc.

Thank-you StarLight!

zzz I am a vet of ASD mostly, and some other stuff, starting with own relative 15+ years ago.

In all that time, parents' gut instinct keeps turning out to be right.

In the early days, I tended to think that what had been such a massive benefit to my relatives would work well for other DCs who presented in a similar way, but ASD turned out to be much more complex and subtle.

Parents turned out to be right over and over, with indie experts, when available, explaining and analysing.

Sure, there have been times when parents have some experience, or piece of information, or breakdown in a relationship has skewed the parental judgement, but it is in the 'less than 10%' bracket.

So Adri the smart money says you are probably right, but zzz may have a point - your past experience of seeing some kids being plonked in front workstations for the benefit of teachers/LA rather than the kids themselves might, just possibly, (maybe less than 10%!!), be impacting on your view for your DC.

I ma sure you are smart enough to realise if that could be happening, and to test the impact of workstation-education-options at home.

Good Luck

I know what you mean Adrianna22. I am a teacher in MS and the only advice teachers are given is to set up a workstation and have start and finish trays. Oh, and visual timetables. Yes, for done chimdren this helps but for as many, it doesn't and this is why the teachers should be listening to you. The vast majority of professionals (within schools) are certainly no ASD experts and there is no way I would 'trust' them to just get on with it.
There are some that 'get it' and it's like striking gold when you do find one.
In the meantime, I would keep 'fighting'. We all want to do what is best for our children and parents , more often than not, know what this should be. Good luck.

I think you are absolutely right to question the automatic use of TEACCH and workstations. But as you can see some people get very defensive when you suggest you may want to go against the grain!

Workstations would never have worked with my son. He didn't need visual timetables either.

He needed to be highly motivated to learn, and needed a 1:1 individualised curriculum, and when we won that for him he flew.

It's not about being 'submerged' in language, it's about being taught language in a highly structured, individualised way, while extremely motivated to do so. And while any behaviours that interfere with learning are being dealt with effectively too. In ds1's case he also needed to be taught to imitate, to play, to share attention etc and for us ABA ticked all the boxes.

But v v sadly, the ill-informed prejudice against ABA is staggering. There are excellent campaigns going on to try and change this and I wish them the very best with what is a near-impossible job!

This isn't an argument about TEACHH vs ABA, it is an argument about what intervention is going to be delivered in a way that after 2 months or so, you will be able to say with evidence it worked.

You therefore need to start with a clear idea of what the intervention is seeking to address and have the evidence to support that.

Workstations are not outcomes.

You also need the intervention and the effect of it to be documented regularly in order to not waste both the child's time and the teacher's time resourcing it if it isn't having the effect it needs to.

You need to be clear that the outcome being sought isn't for the benefit of the teacher, or to 'occupy' the child enough to keep them quiet and it has some real and tangible benefit for the child and for their future education and learning.

That isn't ABA. It is effective use of resources.

Thank you Starlight, Rumba, Littlemiss and Senvet.

You absolutely get where I'm coming trying to come from.

Honestly, yes what I saw at the ASD unit and what DS went through in nursery ( as it was a similar set-up) did cloud my judgement. But I'm preparing to take small steps and I would take on the idea of setting up targets with the school.

Someone said "...not being about submersed in language, but the motivation to use language". You hit the nail on the head. I want my DS to be constantly be motivated to use language.

Really good luck adri

Thank you Senvet .