LA consider OT to be a health need only

[bjkmummy]

on a sunday morning musing as starting to think about gettinge verything covered for the tribunal as the evidence deadline is now in sight so need to start getting my head in the game

she needs OT - sensory diet etc as she has sensory needs also she has hypermobility so has all the usual handwriting needs.

you cannot get therapy here for sensory intregration therapy on the NHS - they do not commission it and I have that in writing.

In the LA response to tribunal they have stated 'that they consider OT to be health need' they have place all the therapy etc in the non educational part of the NIL although in educational part they have put in she has hypermobility but argue that normal school arrangements can cover that.

the only way for her to get OT therapy is via a statement not a NIL - the LA wont accept she needs it for obvious reasons.

I know salt has case law to argue it is an educational need and I know its assumed that OT is as well but I just need to pinpoint something in writing to show my LA the error of their ways

Dd3's NIL briefly mentions Handwriting issues and sensory difficulties such as not being able to use the main school toilets.

Of course they have been very careful not to out anything in the NIL that cant be done by school!

SIT is not provided on NHS in my area either. I managed to get them to do a sensory assessment by filling the questionairre in with the senco but aside from agreeing that she had major issues and talking about brushing and deep joint compressions nothin much else has been done. We were accessing SIT via a social enterprise but that is on hold at the moment

I am heading for tribunal too as you know bjk so will alos be going through all the recommendations made this week.

Sorry about the typos

they say my NIL is comprehensive and detailed and cannot understand why I am not happy with it! the fact not a single thing is specified and quantified says it all. they have put - handwriting programme and that's it - not who will do it, how they will do it, monitoring etc etc and the whole NIL is the same.

they have put some SALT in educational but not how it will be done etc - think that's why they are now rushing to get the NHS SALT report - they have written the NIL without MS and DK reports as they were received post NIL so I can argue the NIL is now already out of date and doesn't reflect all of her needs and never did.

they say that the stat assessment medical didn't pick up any salt issues - the paed didn't see her - it was a 4 min phone call but ive re read the medical report and its been quite cleverly worded so that point doesn't come across so going to write and ask the NHS to confirm that she was never physically seen at the stat assessment medical part. as we know the medicals are always dire - had this with her brother cos the medical failed to pick up all his OT needs - its just deny deny deny despite the overwhelming evidence of her needs.

also they are calling the senco of the secondary which im not naming - clearly my daughter has been discussed and I have a suspicion her NIL has been given to the secondary school without my permission

Have you got reports specifying and quantifying her needs for SALT and OT? How are they justifying ignoring them?

Gosh - I am totally gobsmacked that you can have a statutory assessment and the Paed doesn't even see the child. A phone call???? - That takes things to a new level in ridiculousness.

I know the medical assessment is pretty dire - but that takes things to such a new level and I'm not sure that can be 'legal' - would make sure what happened is clearly noted (and I bet you will get a further appointment offered soon...)

SA paed - didn't do much 'assessment' (beyond weight and height and listen to chest - ie worked out they were alive...) but I did insist on speaking with them (not in front of the child) and I did give them all reports showing what their known needs were (gave them all diagnosis letters from Hospital to GP, showed red book, salt / ot / Physio / EP / CAMHS reports etc.. so it was indisputable what medical issues were already present) and from this they did write (in front of me) a list of this child has..... and needs.... as per SALT / OT / OPTHAMOLOGIST / PAED / CAHMS report etc...

Was basic and very much admin- but it did confirm that the medical profession in the SA process had acknowledged they needed things at school.

Good luck at getting this sorted - I can't believe that they try to get away with such things.

yes all of my reports fully specify and quantify everything. LA EP assessment was dire as well - he used her dyslexia action report for the scores, did not classroom obs with her and did two minor tests with her ie her reading and spelling which confirmed the figures on our report - ie on 2nd centile for reading and that was the EP assessment.

to be honest at the time I didn't push over the paed assessment - the paed had seen her a couple of months earlier re her OT needs - I stupidly thought that after winning refusal tribunal no way they would issue a NIL given the comments of the panel and that their assessment dire just so they could tick the box and issue a dire statement - how wrong I was.

if I did get a further appointment - would be interesting given the decision has already been done to issue a NIL but the NHS paed oblivious now its heading to tribunal so important I get the point clarified and documented so it is written in black and white - will be interesting to see how the NHS respond

Nope, Dd3 wasnt seen by the Paed either although she did know Dd3 quite well and had lots of paperwork about her.

She actually stated that Dd3's anxiety around school was really high in comparison to other Dc's she worked with and that she felt that Dd3 definitely needed a statement in order that she stays in school and has her needs met.

Nothing is quantified in our NIL either

My biggest problem at the moment is that Dd3 is coping well with the transition in to secondary and is being well supported in the background. I have wavered about whether or not to continue on this mission to go back to tribunal.
Everything could change over night though so I am not pulling out any time soon!!

I had my Indi OT, who had done SIPT, to do an environmental assessment of the LA preference. I also had Ruth Birnbaum (indi EP who has written a book on SEN school suggestion) do a two and a half hour assessment of the school. DS1 had never even visited. Might be a tad OTT for appeal of NIL.

that may be my option for the next tribunal keep - ive emailed my OT earlier and suggested that - if we win the next tribunal then on we go for the placement one which will be the mother of all battles - will be interesting to see which mainstream secondary the LA name - I haven't asked for the one they are sending the senco from but another one closer to home which is dire for sensory issues but im playing the longer game here. the reality is if we lose this one she will be home schooled.

ive read my NHS trust autism pathway and if we had gone the NHS route would have taken a year to get a dx. they say an EP can dx and a paed but no mention of salt so may get my indie EP to address the question of ASD when she does her report to tick all the possible boxes.

the nhs paed had seen her 2 months previously as part of a triage but that was specifically for OT only not SALT or asd - the report by the NHS paed is basic but she does say she is aware we had a private report.

nothing yet from the nHS salt referral and its been a month now since they referred her - ive asked for a copy of the referral as im dying to see how they have worded the consent box.

I cant believe that we are having to go through all of this just to get a NIL into a statement - they could have given her a dire statement and saved all of this but I guess that's what they want to do - drag it out for as long as humanly possible and just keep denying she has any needs at all - that's what they argued at the last appeal and now its that she has a very detailed NIL which is comprehensive... so they've completely changed tact since the last one - ah well, just keep going

I had the same thing at the refusal to assess tribunal! The LA denied that Dd3 has SEN! They were told to assess and then admitted that she does have SEN but issued a NIL saying that her needs can be met through the schools own resources !

Oh Gee!! I am rapidly losing the will to live and have no money to get any help!!

We asked a very well known [in the area] EP to assess Dd3 for the SA and despite his report being mentioned in the NIL, his recommendations are not so I guess that is a starting point!

The SARs stuff is supposed to arrive on Monday so it will be all systems go then!

I need a rest from this, I am tired and fed up

We have just been to tribunal over the issue of SLT/OT being an educational need. LA and NHS tried to claim that dd's sensory needs only effected her at home and not within the classroom! Plus despite having motor coordination disorder below the 1st percentile she didn't need any OT input at all.
The panel agreed with our indie OT and ordered that all OT provision (weekly 1:1 therapy from a SI OT, training for CT and TA from OT, TA 30 mins a day delivering OT programme etc) was to be included within part 3.

Although the LA completely mucked up as they denied all along that she had any OT needs, yet within the WD included TA provision for sensory and motor skills within part 5! How can they claim that OT is a non educational need yet the provision is to be delivered within the classroom by a TA?! Madness.

my dd sensory issues clearly affect her at school and that has been witnesses by our indie OT and also MS. the NHS OT do say in their report there are sensory issues as does her stat assessment medical. the LA are picking and chosing which OT needs she has so they accept she has handwriting needs and placed that in the educational needs side of the NIL but then dismiss everything else to non educational even though she needs a TA to do the therapy at school and the sensory needs were all identified at school!

the LA are just trying it on I know and no panel are going to agree its non educational and health only - but like ineed this is a NIL appeal and im also tired of fighting and this is just to even get a blooming statement. I don't see how they can win this appeal as now school say she has 18 hours of support before we even get onto the specialist teaching, OT and SALT needs on top - why they are thinking or persuading schools her needs can be met without a statement I have no idea when clearly she needs a statement - shes years behind academically then there is the new ASD dx which they have just dismissed out of hand - also all secondaries here are academies so even for her to an EP or autism outreach - the school will have to buy it in so yet another cost - it wont be free and yet the random senco who wrote the random report twitters on about all the support being freely available which is simply not going to happen

LB of Bromley v SEN Tribunal established OT can be an educational need.

Under the new system, the definition of SEN is now broader to include health and social care needs where they impact on education. S 21 (5) Children and Families Act 2014 and while it does not apply strictly to statements, nevertheless it is an indication of government thinking.

Look at IPSEA's website What You Need to Know - important Caselaw for a discussion of Bromley and OT.

thanks tempe - will go off and find it