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SN children

Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on special needs.

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Original poster

Adjournment - some one help please?

59 replies

2boysnamedR · 11/10/2014 16:53

Tribunal is days away - but not five days! My ep wants me to adjourn as I will have evidence on the day. Also my lea haven't done anything.

I want this hell to be over.

If I adjourn can the lea adjourn next time?

How long would a adjournment be?

OP posts:

Original poster

2boysnamedR · 13/10/2014 00:25

I have only read the nil once it's so rubbish. It quotes their ep saying ds has the concepts but needs help with speech and lang. Doesn't say how thou. Let me dig it out.

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billiejeanbob · 13/10/2014 00:38

Hmm maybe they are relying on their reports from SA or the NIL as their evidence. In which case, read, read and re read the NIL and highlight all of the parts that suggest provision over and above what is normally funded for school age children ed the reference to SLT. You can them ask them at the hearing how this is going to be funded and provided without the statement. Do the SA reports suggest the same as your indie reports? I know they wont be as specified but if the SA reports mention SLT needs for example and then you have your indie report stating your dc needs x amount of slt a week then you have a good case to need a statement.

Original poster

2boysnamedR · 13/10/2014 01:04

Did a long reply then lost it. Nil quotes ep report. Says ds needs slt but not how he will get it or anything like that. Private ep report is much more detailed saying it's preventing him from assessing the curriculum etc. that he needs 1.1 by a slt therapist for the forseeable future.

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billiejeanbob · 13/10/2014 01:14

In that case at the hearing ask them how they intend to provide the specified slt without a statement. You can highlight to the panel that the LA EP has also recomended input from a slt.
The fact that the LA EP hasnt specified any hours of slt should go in your favour as the tribunal will only then have your indie EPs specified amount of hours to take into consideration.
Are they taking their EP?

Original poster

2boysnamedR · 13/10/2014 01:44

Yes there ep isn't going but he's not been named as witness. No one has been named

OP posts:

Original poster

2boysnamedR · 13/10/2014 01:45

Sorry their ep IS going. But he's not been named

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MeirAiaNeoAlibi · 13/10/2014 13:13

Disadvantage of deferring is they'll have longer to contest your existing evidence. Also longer to arm-twist reluctant people into going to the hearing. You'll have to sit with the stress for longer, plus pay your experts twice.

One potential advantage of deferring is they might submit any dodgy evidence in writing, rather than just making it up as they go along on the day, which is harder to contest. But, tbh, they'll probably do that anyway

MeirAiaNeoAlibi · 13/10/2014 13:22

Have a look at this

Upper Tier sets precedent- so First tier has to take account of it (though if the facts of the case are very different, it may well decide that the precedent doesn't relate to it)

Two paragraphs jump out at me as possibly relevant to you . You might want a look at 30-32 as well

Para 17
if it was the case that a school or local authority, despite having the necessary resources, simply refused to use their best endeavours to provide the requisite special educational provision, a tribunal may well consider it necessary to direct a statement

Para 19
It further appears to me that while a tribunal must make findings as to the child’s needs and the required provision sufficient to enable it to come to a conclusion as to the need for a statement, those findings do not have to be in the same detail as would be expected in the statement. Otherwise, when directing a statement the tribunal would effectively have to write it

Original poster

2boysnamedR · 13/10/2014 13:53

Phoned sendist - they are find with late evidence

Lea have not submitted evidence

Lea have not named any witness

I have made multiple attempts to contact lea. No reply to phone calls or respond to emails

I'm not trying again. Will see sendist to show that I have repeatedly tried.

Feel sick to my stomach

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fairgame · 13/10/2014 14:01

That's good news that they will allow late evidence.
Don't chase the LA anymore, they know the deadlines. Hopefully the judge will hand them their arse when they turn up with no evidence and random witnesses.
Not long and it will be over

Original poster

2boysnamedR · 13/10/2014 14:16

I didn't realise I'd feel so sick about this. It's really game over, they are not going to concede. They are going to shaft me on the day aren't they? I'm going out fighting. I have told them I tried to contact them to be reasonable but they never get back to me. That's it's been six months and I still haven't seen evidence or witnesses and I will object to adjournment. Going to phone deputy head now.

One last call then no more talking to anyone.

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fairgame · 13/10/2014 14:24

They might still concede and even if they don't you are better prepared for the hearing then they are.
FWIW my LA conceded at mediation on the Friday and the hearing was meant to be on the Tuesday (til we found out it was stayed ). It's a little game of who can hold their nerve the best. It's a horrible, shitty game but at the minute you have the upper hand. They don't seem to know who is even attending. Imagine them trying to scramble a few witnesses together last minute. These witnesses won't be very well prepared whereas you know your case inside out and back to front.

Original poster

2boysnamedR · 13/10/2014 14:35

It's also just dawned on me how crap the school have been. We all know about the tribunal. But it's never mentioned. If I win and he gets a statement how can I work anymore with a school who are so blind and never supported me?

Your right I know I hold all the cards now. My evidence is 224 pages

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Original poster

2boysnamedR · 13/10/2014 14:39

Can I just say this life and this process is so utterly crap. All other mums are worrying about if their child is going get first place in ballet etc and I'm down fighting at grass roots for my sons right to exist. I have to fight this totally alone because of others ignorance and refusal to accept his sen.

I am not ashamed of my boy. He has sen - I love him and I will fight for him until my last breath.

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fairgame · 13/10/2014 14:57

Honestly you're not alone, we've all been through it as well.
Something seems to happen to schools as soon as you appeal. DS's school were always supportive and brilliant with him, i had a good relationship with them. However as soon as i appealed, and they knew i would and agreed with it was the right thing to do, they seemed to pretend i didn't exist. I asked them to attend the hearing and they refused, using the excuse that they had to be impartial. My solicitor said it was a ridiculous excuse and applied for a summons.
Throughout the whole 8 months, i can count on one hand how many times they asked how it was going. They seemed to avoid me in all honesty.
Once the LA and I had agreed to a placement i told DS's LSA straight away as was employed solely for DS so needed to look for a new job. He told the inclusion team that DS was leaving and they told him that nothing was concrete and it was all hear'say from me!! Cheeky bastards, as if i would make it up! The LSA hated the HT and inclusion team so he had no problem telling me what was said, especially as he was leaving anyway.
Even when i had the new statement with the new school named, they still didn't believe that DS was leaving because the LA hadn't phoned them and told them personally.
It was just bizarre behaviour and i don't know where it came from. For the previous 3.5 years we had all been working together, we agreed that DS needed a ss and they wanted him out so i don't understand why they were being like that.
The main SENCO was on mat leave during my appeal and she came back 2 weeks before DS left. She was lovely and asked how it had all gone and i think if she had been there then it would have been different.
My Mum used to worked in a school as an LSA for SN kids and she maintains that schools are most bizarre places with the most ridiculous politic ever and that's says a lot as she is a social worker now!

bjkmummy · 13/10/2014 15:59

I had late evidence allowed on the day - I did try to submit it early but it went to the bottom of sendist in tray so they just in the end returned it and said I could apply on the day which I did - I was savvy in that I gave it to the LA before the hearing so they couldn't say I had sprung it on them - it was my dd upto date levels so the panel needed it anyway and allowed it - just make sure you take loads of copies of any late evidence with you on the day as you have to hand one to each and every person who is there.

Original poster

2boysnamedR · 13/10/2014 16:11

Oh crap. He's sent me a shitty reply about my late evidence reminding ME of the evidence deadline!

I replied to him that sendist has ok'd it and now he's trying to call me. I didn't answer it

Cheeky £&@"!!

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bjkmummy · 13/10/2014 16:19

well best he bloody concede then !!!! they do this in the final days really try to pressure you into their way of thinking - stay firm and strong - you have behaved impeccably throughout all of this and you now have them panicking and stressing about it all. I bet he had 'forgotten' all about you and now hes realised how majorly he's cocked up

Original poster

2boysnamedR · 13/10/2014 16:31

I'm worried I shouldn't have called then maybe they wouldn't have turned up!

I'm not calling him back now. He knows what my late evidence will say. It's a life long condition. The lea assessed him - it's was 1% so what does he think will have changed? He hasn't read a word if the bundle

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fairgame · 13/10/2014 16:46

Just leave it. If he really needs to get hold of you then he can email you (then everything is in writing). Make sure that you submitted the final evidence with the proper form so that they can't say you didn't do it properly.
Hang on in there, you've got this far!

bjkmummy · 13/10/2014 18:48

yes agree with fairgame - go under the radar now - they can email or wrote to you - I made the mistake before mine of taking a call a couple of days before and it was the LA solicitor and she was desperately trying to get me to agree to stuff that was completely wrong so in the end I just told her we are not going to agree, see you at tribunal and that call totally stressed me out - we were on our way to centre parcs as well! tribunal a couple of days later and they conceded everything they had been trying to get me to agree to just before we went into court so I would now not answer the phone - let them feel the pressure not you.

Original poster

2boysnamedR · 13/10/2014 19:29

I'm not talking now. I have tried to fair and reasonable and to no end. Unless they telling me they conceed I don't want to hear it

OP posts:

Original poster

2boysnamedR · 13/10/2014 19:30

Even the school didn't get back to me. I won't be kind to who ever turns up in the day.

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MeirAiaNeoAlibi · 13/10/2014 23:24

Go on, bring that case along as late evidence- having "helpfully" highlighted the above passages in all 15 copies

MeirAiaNeoAlibi · 13/10/2014 23:26

Don't go for their balls though.
I did, and it was a mistake. Not mumsy enough, and we lost as a result

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