Does anyone want to talk me out of pulling DS out of school?

[SezaMcGregor]

I just don't trust them with him any more.

DS has no diagnosis, no statement. He's naughty and the school do not know what to do with him. He's in year 2 at school.

He gets called names or children are unkind to him and so he hits and is nasty back to get a revenge. He's getting where he's manageable at home most of the time but in a group (such as at school) he has to be centre of attention and thinks that by making children laugh they like him and so is the class clown but always takes a step (or 8) too far and is hard to then wind back down.

At school, he says that no-one plays with him, they mimic the teachers telling him to go and sit somewhere else but then gets frustrated when he tries the same tactic, they don't let him in. He sits by himself at lunchtime. Today he was made to sit out at circle time because they were talking about superheros, he became excited (what boy does not love superheros) and was "disruptive" so had to go and sit by himself. Then when he was allowed back in the group "bam" he's naughty again.

So, after a 10 minute ranting at from the teacher (really not very productive) including things from yesterday which she didn't tell me about - he says that he has no friends - she retorts "well is there any wonder?" before realising what she'd said and telling him three boys that are his friends.

At home when I'm asking him about school - what's the best thing about school? "Not getting told off" No, I say, what's your favourite thing about school? "home time"

It shouldn't be like this. Rather than saying that he fears that I'll make him move schools because he's being so naughty - he's now telling me that he wishes he didn't go to this school.

He used to love school. He loved going, he loved his teacher, he loved his friends. Yes, he was challenging, but his teacher cared about him and tried to make him achieve his best.

He now has two teachers, the senior teacher and the HT. HT is also the SENCO.

There's lots of other things too like her telling me that they are not going to work on his behaviour in his IEP as there's no point because he won't achieve those targets and they're fighting a losing battle.

I hate seeing him like this and I don't want him to have another day there, made to feel like he's thoroughly naughty like he has no friends and feeling that the teacher doesn't like him.

I'm a single mum, I work full time. I don't drive, I live in a rural community and I'd be scared to make him change schools again (already moved him here from another school where he had nothing but negativity at the May half term of reception) - I'm scared that the same thing will happen where ever he is. It seems to be a problem that teachers have that they cannot cope with him being in their classroom. Home Ed isn't really viable but I'm struggling to see what else I can do.

By the time I had finished with the teacher tonight, Parent Partnership had closed so I'll be calling them first thing on Monday. Even if things are resolved (to a standard) - how can I trust this woman who so obviously wishes that DS was not in her class with my wonderful, funny, charming little boy again?

In the meantime, what am I supposed to do? Can I just keep him at home indefinitely and is it worth losing my job for? Of all of the decisions that I've ever had to make, this is the hardest.

I’m so sorry you are in this position. That's a really tough decision. But one thing's for sure, your DS needs help. Can you give the paediatritian another poke? Tell the paediatritian about your DS’s disruptive behaviour and really lay it on that he is much worse in a group with other children his own age than with an adult. That he cannot play with other children in school and they reject him; that he plays the clown because he doesn’t know how else to be accepted and he has no idea when to stop. Ask to be referred to a SALT. It sounds to me as if your poor DS has a serious social and communications skills problem.

I think you said the paed was going to write to the school? Then ask the head/SENCO to report on your DS’s difficulties and disruptions and really highlight how much trouble he’s getting into in a group with other kids, the fact that he doesn’t know when it’s appropriate to speak out and when not, all his social and behaviour difficulties. The paed needs to know how your DS is, when he is not face to face with an adult in a quiet room!

Your DS is not naughty! He is obviously trying very hard to be good. But he is disruptive (not as disruptive as my own DS I hasten to add – ooh, I have grey hairs with my DS’s name on them!) And he needs help so he can “access the curriculum” without disrupting other kids. Feel free to ignore this but... I would keep him in school for the time being if you can bear to, at least until after the paed has finished his assessments. Your DS has a legal right to an appropriate education and to be a bit hard-headed about it, the more the school have to struggle with your DS and the more disruptive he is to the other kids in the class, the more likely he is to get that help. But if you've still got nowhere, and if the paed wont give any diagnosis or refer to a SALT, then by all means think again.

I’m in Scotland so I don’t know much about the English system, but if you’re in England you might want to consult IPSEA for advice as I think you and your DS are being let down.

And once again, I am so sorry for your DS and for you. I really hope you find a way through this!

Polter - I think that the HT has taken too much on her plate. A part-time member of staff left last Christmas and rather than replace her, HT stepped in to teach on those days. She is now advertising, but it's a bit late.

I originally thought that as HT had been to all of the CAF meetings (she wouldn't let the class teacher come to them) and had such an input into what help DS received and what was applied for, that she would be great to have a teacher this year as there would be continuity. She's know what DS needs and know how to put it in place. She's the HT for goodness sake - surely she'd be the best person for DS to have?

But of course, that is not the case.

She's abrupt and blunt - a very no nonsense woman - but she panics when she feels cornered and obviously cannot cope with DS for a whole day and especially not two days a week.

She told me today that yesterday at swimming (he was allowed to go yesterday) that he had dunked another child. Another child in the class was too scared to go swimming in case DS dunked him and so did not do swimming yesterday. When I spoke to DS he was genuinely confused. He'd told me that he'd grabbed a boy's foot when getting out of the pool (I know, not good, and I addressed it) but is certain that he did not dunk him. He said "well, his foot was in the water..." although trying to make sense of it. I don't think that he dunked anybody at all, though he knows that we don't touch other people's bodies at swimming.

Anyway, I digress - but I meant she told me today why not tell me yesterday? She knows that I don't collect him on Thursdays as I'm doing positive parenting but she could have phoned me, sent me a note - why leave it until today?

I honestly do not know what to do. If I leave him in school, who knows how long it will take to undo the damage - but then if I pull him out, what shall I do with him? I can't keep making him change schools. I can't Home Ed him.

Parent Partnership said that they'd definitely assist me if they're not meeting his needs, which they most definitely are not doing.

Kleinzeit - I'll speak to Paed again and see if I can get a timescale out of him. I'll also look at this SALT thing. I'll also ask Parent Partnership about pushing for an ECH (or EHC) I've asked HT if she feels it is appropriate to look at putting one in place but she's not replied to me.

It's frustrating because we can have such lovely times together but he cannot be like that at school.

Thank you both for your comments xx

Here's what to do tonight

Here's how to do it

If you end up pulling your DS out, you'll probably be glad you already have an EHCP assessment request in the pipeline.

If your DS dunks another dc when you're with him, your responsibility.

Other people (who are well paid and well trained) choose not to do a proper risk assessment and not to supervise him properly when taking him offsite. This may well impact on his classmates. But its not your problem.

Now that, Meir is just what I do need! Thank you :-) xx

Meir - I've contacted the mum on FB and apologised, he is my boy after all and I'd be very cross if he felt threatened like that by another child. He'll not go again, he can do without the stress of having to be good enough to go and then getting a ban because he's been messing about with a friend. I can do without the stress. It does absolutely nothing for his self-esteem all of this "no, you're not good enough" stuff.

I have never felt this sad for him. I really feel like I've let him down.

You haven't let him down.
Stuff . The emotion you want is

HT may not be coping. But she controls the SEN budget. It's within her authority to rejigged her budget and allocate a full time 1-1 to support your DS. She is choosing not to- so feeling cornered is optional.

If she was a NQT with no backup, a bad boss, brand-new flat rental contract and a huge student debt, if have a bit of sympathy. Not for a HT

You know Meir, it's because the head is so self righteous. I know I can't win with her. Her whole attitude is "I'm right" and when I chat back, she's nasty about DS so it's either back down and let her carry on her emotional fuck up that she's causing him or I try to stand my ground an have her make snide, unprofessional comments which make me walk away in tears.

I'm starting to see she's a bully.

I'll also add that she's not a young head, she's far into her career and is seen to be a good head (though abrupt and rude) - but has a real problem when she has children that come to her school without a statement in place and she has to help us to get things put in place.

Saturday and DS tells me that he has nightmares about his old HT. He's at school, I don't pick him up and then the old HT comes to collect him and take him away.....

I just feel so sorry for him and regret my decisions so much. Who knows what will happen on Monday....

Are you absolutely sure you can't find a way to home educate?

Your story sounds very similar to my son's and my biggest regret is that we kept on going till the beginning of Y5, trusting teachers who were failing him and putting him every day into an environment that was harming him. It took us a very long time to undo the damage and he was in a dreadful emotional state by the time we eventually deregistered.

At the very least you will need to address why his needs aren't being met at this current school. It's good that you have Parent Partnership on your side so I'd take full advantage of that, and the IPSEA advice too. I hope you can find some answers. Your poor boy can't go on like this indefinitely.

do you have anyone who could look after him while you are at work? you can educate him at other times then.

and no i will not stop you pulling him out. nearly ready to pull ds out.

Streaky and Susan

If I reduced my hours back to 2 days, I could find childcare for him for those 2 days. I would not be able to do any more until summer holidays when I could be full time again.

Working full time only gives me around £30 extra per week and so we would not lose a vast amount of money if I did reduce my hours to 2 days a week and kept lovely DS at home.

In my experience, very similar situation to yours, I would move him. Is there any bigger more inclusive schools in your area. My son went to a small village school and stuck out like a sore thumb, and was made to cop for everything. His esteem went down and I wish to god I had rescued him earlier. Go have a look round other places there will be a school that is right for him and will want to support him properly and will know how to get him assessed and will be willing to carry out his IEPs no matter how challenging they are. If the head isn't willing to cooperate I don't see how you are going to get much sorted. It will suck all the energy out of you just having to go into battle with her every day, and sometimes we need that energy to look after our kids . sorry to hear your son is in this situation, HTH.

I wouldn't say do not do it.

Part of me wishes I had done so for ds2 after his first meltdown at school. Instead we persevered not least on the advice of our GP who told us if we withdrew him we would remove all access to any support.

The GP was right that by staying in the system we have a diagnosis for him (and his brother), he has a statement and now a place at a specialist school but I am not sure any of this is worth more than the effect on his mental health of being forced to continue at school when he clearly was not coping. On the other hand now he is in his specialist school he gets lots of positives from it, has increased interest in the world and is certainly less depressed.

I think if you do decide to home educate you need a plan. Are you planning this to be a short-term solution and a return to school at some point. If so how will you ensure that the next time school is more successful.

Are you prepared to home educate until he is 18 and the consequent effects on the household income because you can not work.

How will you home educate. Are there any local home educator groups in your area. Do you have a good social network that will help him develop skills in this area.

Will you persist in trying to get a diagnosis or an explanation for his difficulties at school?

It is a big decision but as Lougle has demonstrated recently it is also a reversible one.

Your current school sounds particularly hopeless but there are some good and inclusive schools out there if you look hard enough. If you could pick an ideal school for your son what features would it have - you might not get the ideal but it does help get your priorities in order when you start looking for alternatives.