possible illegal exclusions

[xenzani]

Long story short, would being sent home to 'calm down' before going back to school for the afternoon session or the next day if it happens in the afternoon be classed as an illegal exclusion?

Dd2s school are wanting to do the above when she is in destructive mode and either about to hurt someone or already has hurt someone, thrown things or running about the school. I understand that she can't be at school but feel that they should be doing more to help prevent it getting to that point.

SA refused but have put in for tribunal, although the senco says that she won't get a statement as she is making some progress, doesnt have a diagnosis, learning disability and they don't give them for behaviour. She didn't like that I told her that they can be. This is also her first real dealings with dd2 as senco was off sick when things got really bad after easter last year.

Yes, this does count as an illegal exclusion and will therefore not show on the school absence figures. I would be insisting on receiving official paperwork before you collect your dd.

If the school can't cope to the extent they have to send her home then this is clear evidence that they are not meeting her needs and good evidence for your tribunal. Keep all documentary evidence, copies of emails etc as these will be very helpful.
Also, statements are issued for behavioural difficulties so Senco is talking rubbish.

Thank you. Pretty much what I thought so another angle for me refusing to pick her up. Excluding her doesn't work anyway as she never seems to get why it's happened.

Senco didn't like the fact that I told her that statements can be given for behaviour. Slightly worried now though as her caseworker for the SA is now on maternity leave and her cover is someone from behaviour support who has known dd and her case since day one.

But yes, will document it all as it happens.

What else has the school put into place in order to support your Dd before they send her home??

Make a list of all provision that has been offered or tried! In Dd3's tribunal the amount of additional provision that was in place but still not enough to meet her needs was an important part of the decision.

We won our appeal for refusal to assess, despite Dd3 being within the national norms academically.

In place there is a timetable that means that dd is in class for a maximum of half an hour before going to work with an LSA and another child. She will be back and forth between the classroom and with the second LSA. In class, she has the class LSA supporting her. Before being sent home, she will be given three warnings to change the behaviour, with two minutes each warning to do it. If she doesn't, or becomes violent, running away, point blank refusing to cooperate she will be sent home for the rest of the morning, to be back after lunch, or the next day if it is the afternoon.

She can choose herself if she wants to be in class or out, but where ever she will be, she will be closely supervised which will hopefully prevent things getting to that point. We shall see what happens with that.

Dd is very unpredictable, and something that didn't set her off one day could the next.

How can they possibly have refused SA in those circumstances. How on earth do they think she is accessing the full curriculum if they are sending her home so often.

There might be a grey area if you have agreed to a written behaviour plan. For example ds2 was on reduced hours by blackmail parental agreement and this does not count as an illegal exclusion. Even as part of a behaviour plan it should be of short duration (in the order of weeks) and there should be a plan to achieve full integration. I would recommend ringing IPSEA for confirmation.

Both my ds's have statements for social and behavioural difficulties. Despite being academically above average they are both in specialist schools. The Senco is talking rubbish.

The reason often for the unpredictably is that the explosions are usually the cumulation of lots of little things. If levels of stress are high then it would take very little to set ds1 off e.g. getting a maths question wrong, losing a game, name-calling, etc. When his stress levels are low he can cope most of the time with these.

Yes it is an illegal exclusion and you absolutely can get statements for behavioral problems. This is exactly what my ds is getting a statement for. He had no learning difficulties.

Having said that my ds has been on a flexi- schooling agreement because he cannot cope with being at school all day. The school are desperate for him to increase his hours. So we are on a rolling programme of increasing his hours with the understanding that if he had a melt down, they ring me and I take him home.

He is very unpredictable so strategies have to change constantly (eg every few minutes), once he has a melt down there really isn't anything they can do. Keeping him at school just increases his anxiety. The school do an amazing job and are constantly trying new things to help him. I trust them and so am happy to take him home because I know they aren't being lazy or obstructive.

If I felt they were not doing their best for him or weren't helping to avoid melt downs in the first place, it would be a different matter.

Thanks for the replies.

I haven't signed anything yet, and have also told them I won't be picking dd up when they call. They know my feelings on it, as that it does not work for her, and just makes going back to school harder. She has never fully refused to go to school, but we almost ended up like that until she was moved out of the class to work with an LSA and two boys for the last four weeks of term.

She got excluded, and was sent home early quite a lot last term, in fact most of her exclusions for last year was during the summer term, adding up to almost two weeks off in total.

She doesn't like coming home from school, but I think that that is down to her power seeking behaviours.

The reason often for the unpredictably is that the explosions are usually the cumulation of lots of little things. If levels of stress are high then it would take very little to set ds1 off e.g. getting a maths question wrong, losing a game, name-calling, etc. When his stress levels are low he can cope most of the time with these.

That is my dd completely. Maths is her strongest subject (all are very strong) but she can't accept getting anything wrong so will end up refusing to even try, and if she does try, gets it wrong, she explodes. Even if the rest of the group got it wrong, that wasn't good enough for her, she had to get it right. When she explodes, she will go one of two ways: take herself off an hide away for as long as she needs, or will hit, kick, run, bite, throw things, climb up what ever she can, try to get any reaction she can out of the staff, (apparently she is in complete control of her emotions, knows what she is doing because she does it with a smirk on her face). When this happens, that is when they want to send her home. They wanted me to go up there and calm her down which would work for a bit before she ended up being sent home, because within minutes she had exploded again.

SA was refused because the LEA hadn't received the required paperwork from the school, and that they expected that specialist teachers to have been in to work with her. In hindsight, I should have put on the form that the specialist teacher from behaviour support had been working with her, but I was told by the deputy head (who was covering for the Senco whilst she was off sick) that they weren't a specialist teacher.

Thanks again for all your help!

Polter, she does like going to school, although says more and more that she doesn't. If she had her way, she would stay at home most of the time and only go out where she wanted to or her best friend and play Disney Infinity (latest obsession).

They do think they are being very flexible, and said so to her (whilst she was being uncooperative and not calm) and I suppose they seem to think it will satisfy her need to be in control as she chooses where to be. However, it is only a matter of time before it doesn't work. Nothing ever does for very long.

Makes me laugh really, they say she won't get a statement, and that she doesn't need one, yet practically give her two members of staff almost to herself.

You may well find that if they don't have the easy option of sending dd home the school will become more enthusiastic about supporting statutory assessment. As you say, it's mad that the school is devoting all those resources to her but are being so feeble about going for a statement - it must be costing them way above what they get by way of SN funding from the council.

I guess it's because she has periods of doing better. The time she always does best is the spring term. Seems to be when she is most settled: very few changes in routine, she seems secure then. Any wobbles that do happen are short lived.
Before Christmas there is a lot of change, as there is after easter.

The school must have quite a bit of funding seeing as this year they have three teachers not teaching classes of their own but instead supporting the other teachers.

SA was refused because the LEA hadn't received the required paperwork from the school

Is not a reason to refuse SA!!!! It is up to the LA to get the paperwork!!!

And there it is, exclusion number one. Had a call to go up there and calm her down. I said to be honest, it won't work and will make her worse or she will have calmed down.

Have to collect her for throwing rubbers and being rude to her teacher. They have been doing tests today.

Asked for it to be documented as an exclusion, will not accept no paperwork.

Honestly, at least the ds's school excluded for something serious like kicking the teacher . The only bright side is it gives you one more bit of evidence for your appeal. Just to give you a little bit of a light at the end of the tunnel ds1's behaviour (who has a very similar profile) has really improved since his needs have been met.

Dd used to get excluded for more then today's one.

For the first time ever, as soon I found her (a joke in itself: she is a bolter and hid as soon as she clocked me and no one knew where she was for a good five minutes. I told them I had a feeling she would be in a tree but they dismissed it. She was in fact where I knew she would be.) she was calm and actually told me what happened. It all started this morning in maths as one boy who gave her a lot of trouble last year is in her set. He started calling her names and after that she was on edge the rest of the day. I gather she was asked to do something after lunch and she blew up, started throwing stuff and being rude.

I asked about her being moved out of that maths class but it's a no go as she is so bright she needs that set or ahe won't progress, Sencos words. Plan is for the second adult in the class to be by her side for the 20mins before going off to the second lsa to complete the work, and to tell them if he starts on her and ignore him. The senco and her class lsa completely dismissed the fact that she can't.

Dd is saying she hates her school and teacher. She seems okay about both when calm but earlier when she was talking to me, she was really upset about it all.

On the plus side, I had them document it as an exclusion. Being sent home after lunch, they don't normally give me a letter.

I have the same with my DS, xanzani.
He was often sent home at lunch for the rest of the day, and occasionally DH was called at about 11 to collect him asap.

When DH went back to work and I took over at SAHP, I made it clear that I wanted all these illegal exclusions to be properly documented.

So they began sending letters home with him, and the exclusions stopped pretty soon after. I think they didn't want the paper trail showing that they were unable to cope with him.

Before the letters, they were recording his absences in the register as 'educated offsite'
bloody liars, they weren't even sending work home for him to do.

I was present at a tribunal about disability discrimination - and illegal exclusions formed a large part of it. The head admitted that the statistics about exclusions only go up to Whitsun - so she felt free to send him home most of the second half of the summer term, knowing it would not count against the school in the outside world.

Tempe48, it's interesting you say that as a big chunk of dds exclusions last year was after may half term. That was also when she had a good few illegal exclusions seeing as they sent her home after lunch with no letters.

ilove, I wished the school would stop the exclusions now I am demanding a letter each time, but that won't happen. Easier to send her home then try and work out why she is like it in the first place.

Another exclusion yesterday afternoon, she didn't go into school well at all, refusing to leave me. She hurt a girl at play time because the girl was annoying her, a boy who she has major issues with had called her names the day before and apparently apologised and then said he lied about being sorry, she had lost play at lunch time because of what happened at play time, was disruptive all afternoon, wouldn't come out of the class, a couple of children in her class winding her up (one who she has history with a couple of years ago).

Had a call to go get her, once again she was in her tree, (seems to be her safe place when she has finally decided to take herself off) anyone that went near her set her off again, but when i went to her, she was calm enough to talk (i had something that would kind of distract her) which is when she told me her views.

Apparently, there will be another meeting to try and decide what to do next. The timetable isn't working, nothing is really, they are not listening to what I say about what she is telling me, dismissing it all the time, telling her to tell the teachers, who then tell her to ignore the name calling which she can't do, so then she doesn't bother telling anyone as there is no point. The school promised to do work with her emotions and anger, but again it is all talk and no action. Seems to be a lot of that with the school, and it's not just me that has seen that, dds best (and really, her only) friend has AS and the school have been failing him too.

The school is supposed to report each exclusion to the council; also there is a maximum number they are allowed to impose per year - I think it's 45. So requiring letters may well result in them trying a bit harder to avoid going for an exclusion every time.

I suggest you use the meeting to suggest that what they really need is some expert advice which they could get by supporting you in asking for statutory assessment.

Veritata, I put in a request for SA in July which was turned down because the LA hadn't received any reply from the school (deputy head told me it had been sent off) and that they hadn't had specialist teachers in for her. I have put in for tribunal (waiting to hear anything back about that).

They are supposedly trying to get behaviour support back in after they closed her case in April. Only way to contact them now is to leave a message and for it to be picked up on one of two days a week. Apparently the school have been trying to contact them since June I think and Behaviour support say they have had nothing.

Fully expect to go pick her up again soon, she was okay, a bit subdued until we got to her class and then the office (she meets the class LSA and goes to class from the office) when she started to say that she was staying with me and not going to school. Took the LSA and deputy head to get her away from me.

I have to say thank you all so far for the advice, and listening xx

xenzani I am just going to comment on one point.
My request for SA was also turned down on the grounds that the LA hadn't received any reply from the school. SENCO assured me that she had sent off the school's reply and could give me the date. I believe her as school does actually want extra resources for dd.
Her needs are very different from your dd's but I find it strange that exactly the same scenario has arisen with regard to school info.

xenzani - just read your other thread too and I honestly think that it may be time to write a formal complaint to the director of children's services regarding the handling of the statutory assessment application and the fact your child is not currently receiving a full education. In our experience it did really get things moving.

OneInEight, do you think it may help us?

I am really at a loss as to what to do, I don't even know if half days will work at school seeing as she is disruptive in the mornings too. I don't think the school know what to do now either.

Part time would be for two weeks before starting to extend the time spent at school. Again, choice to stay all day some days if she wants...

Three exclusions in one week. I know how tomorrow will go. Have to decide whether to try part time.

On the plus side, finally have an appointment with the peadiatrician again next month, as long as this one doesn't get cancelled, so hoping something comes out of that, aside from a dx of tourettes, nothing came out of the last one almost two years ago, although a lot has changed since then.

It's all a nightmare.

NoHaudinMaWheest, Makes me wonder how many times that has happened. Wasn't ECC, was it?

Dds school didn't want to to apply for the statement, although complain that they don't have the funding to give her a 1:1 , nor much else, until June when it came to a head, I was up the school daily, and the decision was made to remove her completely from class, to work with an LSA and two other children for the last three weeks of term. I did not get a single call to collect her, or to calm her down. Still had a couple of wobbles, but were very short lived, and very mild.

No other side of the country. Perhaps a common tactic?

It must be. Scary if it is though, and very wrong.