Special schoo/unit dilemma? Should I? Should I not?

[adrianna22]

DS is only four and I have already started to think about putting him in a unit or special school mainly because of his severe speech delay.

I have found the perfect school special school, which I think would suit DS needs. Though, I need to be realistic as it is an indi school, even though it is quite cheap for one, plus DS does have ASD which the SS may feel that when assessing DS, that the school may not be right for him.

The SS that I want DS to go to is not a specific ASD school or a language school. It's a bit of both, but there is a lot of emphasis on communication/speech and language.

So to keep an open mind, I have been looking at ASD schools/units. The majority I've seen do not have a lot of language speech implemented. I went to see an ASD unit a couple of weeks ago and it was lovely and I was actually considering it, till they had this sort of very strong structured approach type learning, I did not like the look of it at all, it did not sit right with me and knew instantly that this would not help DS at all.

I know now that this was called TEACCHH.

I'm still looking at other school, but I'm at lost what to do.

I also feel like that none is supporting me decision to put DS into a SS as soon as, so that he gets the intensive help as early as possible and to help him have the best future..

Don't know what to do.

Most ASD specific provisions will have high levels of structure.

What stage of the statementing process are you at? Have you told the LA that you'd like to name a special school?

Most LAs will say that children with a pure speech delay can have their needs meet at mainstream. Most LAs will say that most children with ASD can have their needs met in mainstream.

Specialist provisions are usually allocated to children with 'severe or complex' needs. Special schools in general tend to be reserved for cistern with a learning disability. So ASD+LD, Speech/language delay+LD, etc.

So you need to work out what the remit of each provision is and how your DS fits that.

DS2 went to a speech and language unit for two years at your son's age and it was awesome. He is now at a small private school, funded through his statement after a Tribunal case. This school also has direct SALT and OT. The difference in his language is amazing.

I visited a lovely local special school but it was for MLD, so almost zero SALT. Locally, it was that or mainstream - at that point DS2 couldn't hold a conversation, never mind follow one.

You do know what you want: a school that actually meets your son's needs, keeps him safe and ensures progress. When comparing your two options, will either school take your DS now? Does he have a statement? Does one involve a lot of travelling? Could your son do taster sessions at both? Have you talked to both Heads? Would one involve going to Tribunal?

It is very lonely fighting their corner. Have you got support? Are you part of your local NAS group? What are the professionals involved in your DS's life suggesting/recommending?

As an example, dd1 at 4 had a gdd. Her speech/language delay was severe, with moderate delay in every other area. It wasn't clear if she would have a learning disability because at the time of assessment her number recognition and colour recognition was 'at least age appropriate.' She had no sense of danger.

All professionals said 'MS with 1:1 support' I was saying 'I don't know but whatever youdo it will be expensive and I'll only let her go to MS with full 1:1 support.'

The education officer felt that SS was appropriate despite the views of the professionals.

4.6 years later, dd1 does have LD. She's still on P levels for all but maths. She is developmentally around 4 to. But she is further ahead than most of her peers.

Thanks everyone.

Lougle Why are most ASD provision structured? DS is not a structured child at all and I hope it stays that way. I guess it would help if the kids like structure. But I found the TEACCH system very structured, I was not convince how this will help the child transition the skills outside, once TEACCH is not used.

We are still at the early stages of the statement process.

I don't get how a four year who has speech equivalent to a 15-month old would have their needs met in a mainstream setting, with 30 kids and one TA.

DS somewhat have a learning difficulties diagnosis- but not confirmed as having a learning disability.

Safinourbubble Does your child have ASD? How is your son doing now in terms with speech?

To your question- The SS is a good 30 mins travel- but I am willing to sacrifice, I still have a long way to go in the statement process.

Most of the professionals are saying that I should only look at ASD schools because of his diagnosis.

That he does not need a SS school.

He will catch up, he will be ok.

Most ASD provisions are structured carefully because for many children with ASD unpredictabilily causes heightened anxiety. DD1's school has lots of children with ASD. Some classes are 'general' so the class works to a visual timetable but it is quite changeable. Some classes are ASD classes where they may work to a fairly strict timetable but make use of 'oops' cards to signify a diversion from the usual plan. Then they have ASD specialist classes for their children with the most pervasive ASD, which have a very high staff:child ratio.

I'm not saying, btw, that a unit/SS isn't appropriate!

DS2 has atypical autism, avoidance disorder, sensory integration disorder, specific language impairment - receptive and expressive, and specific learning difficulties.

He now won't shut up. I never, ever thought I would have to tell him to! He doesn't understand everything - it is still like living with a foreigner but the difference is beyond belief.

Going to Tribunal, the solicitor and barrister and most of the professionals seemed to be saying we had to choose between ASD or SLI as primary diagnosis. Interestingly, it was the psychiatrist who drew it altogether, literally as four interconnecting bubbles with the avoidance disorder connected to his learning difficulties. I have heard of ASD schools that are wonderful, language ones too. If I am honest, the perfect school does not exist for DS2 but where he goes is as good as it gets. His therapists are amazing. His teachers do their best. The TA is awesome. We have had huge problems but had best practice. We do the 30 minute drive because DS2 used to threw up in the taxi. It is worth it. And yes, I had the - "mainstream will be fine". They were lying. Mainstream is fine unless your child cannot cope, cannot access, has therapeutic needs - OT, SALT, sensory - and then, mainstream can actually become damaging. Hmm, seem to have got on my soapbox!

Lougle The comment was not directed to you at all. Sorry if you felt like that. I was just criticising the LA's thinking. I should of worded it better.

Safeinourbubble Thanks so much about telling me your experience of schools with your DS, it has certainly made me feel better about the choice I have made for now.

Oh I didn't think so for a minute!

If people are telling you to look at ASD schools, are they implying that they think MS is inappropriate?

SALT units often won't take children with ASD because they want children with pure S/L issues that they can 'fix' and send to MS after a couple of years.

DD1 was in speech and language provision from 4 - 16 years old. At least 40% of the children, she was with were ASD. Here the language units took ASD children, so long as they had a primary speech and/or language impairment as well.

Children with language disorders need consistency and routine, reduced sensory inputs, etc, so a language unit should meet those needs in ASD children too.

Actually, here they liked children with speech problems in the language units, because with intensive speech therapy for 2 years, their problems could be remediated and the children returned to mainstream. They saw that as an efficient use of resources. 15 years ago, a language unit place here cost £10,000 pa plus transport, compared to say £4,000 for a mainstream place.

Here the MLD schools had one part-time speech therapist, for maybe 110 children - they mainly gave the class teacher advice, rather than delivering direct speech therapy to children.

Does your dc have a speech therapist? What does she say? Does she think your dc needs intensive speech therapy?

It is not about your LA's policies, it should be Part 2 the needs, Part 3 the provisions and then Part 4 the name of the school. So, if your child needs a class of 10, a structured approach, intensive speech therapy, etc then they need a language unit, and that is what I would argue for. LA's are supposed to consider the needs of the individual child, and not apply blanket policies.

lougle I thought I offended you! .
The majority of professionals think that DS would do fine in a mainstream school, but because I have already decided that DS is going to a specialist school/ unit. They all said that an ASD unit/ school would be best because of his diagnosis.

tempe48 The speech therapist said that he needs a lot of support .

"but because I have already decided that DS is going to a specialist school/ unit...."

It doesn't quite work like that . You can state a preference for a specialist setting, but if the LA/professionals don't think he needs one they can refuse and name a ms setting. Then you'd have to go to tribunal to get a specialist setting.

All MS schools are expected to be able to cope with 'mild-moderate' LDs, ASD, Downs Syndrome, etc., by using extra adult support if necessary.

Taking the schools in my area as an example, demand for special schools is through the roof. As I previously said, my school is opening two new classrooms. Another special school locally had opened 3 satellite classes on primary schools, but is now having to build a new site because they need further expansion. The children that are being allocated places have either severe learning difficulties or have very complex learning difficulties. Children that would normally secure a place are having to go to MS because there is simply no space in special schools right now.

DD1, who is complex but categorises as moderate, would not have got a place this year if she was year R. She would have been made to go to MS.

So if you want specialist education you need to start building your case. Don't argue with the ASD dx. ASD=complex. Start to think about all the elements of a typical school day -what will need spirt and what will happen if he doesn't get it.

For DD1, the fact that she was a climber and an escape risk with no sense of danger, combined with the free flow nature of primary schools meant that she would need constant 1:1 so my argument for special didn't have to be too strong.

Lougle not all specialist units require LD - Speech and language units often require that SLCN are the only problem a child has. We nearly missed out on a place as there were questions over my ds development (he has areas of mild delay/scattered skills) rather than purely SLCN with average or above average ability.

I didn't intend to imply that. SALT units, as you say, want children they can 'fix' do pure S/L issues.

SillyLas I understand that. That's why I wrote 'fix' instead of fix. The aim is to give intensive therapy in the unit so the child can move to a ms environment.

MY situation was similar to yours OP. DS is 4 and has ASD and severe speech and language delay (only three words). We knew he would struggle in MS and he will start at a school which only takes children with an official diagnosis of HFA plus a statement. If you don't have both then you won't get in as they are pre-requisites. Even then DS had to be observed by the school before being accepted.

I'd suggest you focus on the statement as without this the LA will never pay for an independent school. When you say an early stage of statementing - have you submitted a request for statutory assessment? The whole process takes around six months barring an appeals. This needs to be your focus - our first SA was turned down!

So if you want specialist education you need to start building your case. Don't argue with the ASD dx. ASD=complex. Start to think about all the elements of a typical school day -what will need spirt and what will happen if he doesn't get it.

This.

The actual diagnosis appears to be an almost incidental throwaway part of DS1's statement, before it gets down to the nitty gritty of what his actual educational needs are.

Both of my boys have ASD as a part of their individual diagnoses, but there is very little common ground in their statements.

Hi everyone, thanks for the replies.

Lougle I am aware about the long process of getting into a special school for DS and worried that the LA would offer me schools, which may not be right for DS. This is going to be a long battle.

JJXM My statement, surprisingly hasn't been turned down- I think as they are requesting information from the schools.

They should contact the school automatically when a parent requests a statutory assessment - they contacted everyone when we made our request - still turned us down. You will need to argue why this independent school will meet your DS's needs above and beyond the school's the LA will offer. They tried to fight us on DS going to an ASD special school and that was an LA maintained one. I'm not saying that you shouldn't fight for the best school for your DS but prepare that it might be very hard

You're at stage 1, where they have to decide whether your DS has needs that are either severe or complex, that will last the majority of his school career and that are likely to need the resources of the LA.

If they decide yes, they will write to you and say they will assess. If not, they will tell you they do not intend to assess, why and that you can appeal.

The next stage is the assessment. After which they decide whether to issue a statement or not. If they decide to issue a statement, they send you a draft copy and ask you to comment and name a school. If not, they issue a note in lieu and tell you that it is your right to appeal.

Presumably you are due to receive notice of their decision to assess in the next 2-3 weeks?

The key issue IMO at the moment is how much speech therapy does dc need? Speech and the ability to communicate is absolutely fundamental to reduce frustration, regulate emotions, education and socialisation. It is a basic human right.

Have you been to the Nuffield? It is not enough for the SLT to say dc needs lots of support. Actually, its the ed psy who decides how much support. The SLT should have some idea about how much speech therapy - whether that can be delivered in mainstream; or they need intensive , which means a language unit. If the ASD is the primary need, then any ASD provision has to be able to deliver speech therapy even if its bought in on top.

As for professionals saying mainstream, inclusion is the prevailing ideology and its cheaper. The presumption in law is mainstream. It may be they are right, mainstream is OK, but always have a healthy dose of scepticism about is the real agenda to save money - you need to know the nature of the speech delay; and how much speech therapy?

Lougle, by describing your DD at age 4, it is just like my ds now :). Funnily enough people comment that he can't have LD when he can count and recognises alphabet and shapes...

Adrianna - Lougle gives good advice with child being either complex or severe in order to warrant statement. For example, my ds has GDD ( moderate) but his additional complex needs are lack of danger awarness, food refusal and very poor self care skills. If he had 'only' moderate GDD, I wouldn't get him into SS ( altough it was a fight anyway). His SS is 'for moderate LD with additional complex needs', other SS are for severe LD's. At the SS for moderate LD's, there are for example children with moderate LD and ASD (ASD being regarded as the complex bit), but if they had severe ASD and no LD, the school would not be suitable.

I believe you will be pushed to 'choose' main need, so either ASD or severe language delay in order to choose school. Of course it's very difficult at early age.

Btw, are you originally from central European country? ( judging by your name). Cause I am :)