ABA tutors thoughts?

[salondon]

We have 30 hours of aba on our statement. It says 1-1. From September

The school agreed to allow our tutors from April in the nursery term as aba tutors.

Now they(school) are quite disappointed saying we can't pay them High level teaching assistant rates because a HLTA works in small groups. We have reminded them that we don't care what you pay so long as you stick to the statement which says 'experience of working in an aba team for atleast 2 years and school shadow experience' .

The school haven't said but I think they feel that aba isn't adding any value for our daughter or other children. They probably expected to get someone who can teach our daughter as well as work with other kids using aba strategies. Especially because the school don't know aba.

I don't want them to think we tricked them into accepting aba on the statement. Because the statement says that they have e to fund it from their own budget. I know statements aren't about money but LEA insisted and fiona said it's okay.

We have offered the school to tell us what they can pay (they want to advertise and hire themselves. They don't like our tutors) and we will top up. Our consultant had a very open chat with the HT explaining that aba tutors are essential to deliver the program(I am sceptical of TAs who are too set in their own ways (

I want to keep the school happy. But I can see why the tutors can't always have 2-3 kids with them. They can't work with our daughter like that all the time.

One of them struggles a lot of being an extra pair of hands vs being an aba tutor. She is very good and usually teaches new targets quickly.

Have had a chat with her. The school don't want to see data sheets being filled in session times. All that I can handle.

But I wonder if schools really do understand the difference between an aba tutor and a TA?

I think you're right that schools can struggle to understand the role of ABA shadow (vs TA). And they will always try and retain control if they can (we had similar situation), by recruiting their own people. But I don't think it's fair you should be having this fight - you have a clear statement that says 30 hours 1-1 ABA, and that's what the school/LEA must provide. The finances aren't your concern, though of course I can see how easy it is to get dragged into that, especially as you want to keep school on-side, and work with them.

In practice, I think it will probably turn out alright - as long as you have tutors who are experienced at school shadowing, and can stand up for themselves, it should fall into place when school start seeing the results for themselves.

Does the statement specify who is setting/monitoring targets, and who is responsible for recruiting?

I think you have to stick to your guns about the shadow working with your dd solely - even if it was a bog-standard school TA, if the position is there and funded for your dd, that would be the same. In reality, much of the time will in fact be spent working with other children, but only where it should concern your dd and working on her targets (eg if a target is specifically about playing/working with other children), but that doesn't mean the shadow should be used for general class duties.

Why do school not want data sheets filled in during sessions? That is a key part of ABA role.

Also think you have to fight as hard as possible to get ABA tutors, rather than 'their' TAs - your statement specifies at least 2ys experience in ABA, and ime no-one recruited through normal TA channels even knows what ABA is, let alone have experience in it.

At the end of the day, regardless of who's paying for it, the responsibility for upholding your statement lies with the LEA, so if it's not being fulfilled, your fight is with them, not school.

In practice, I think it will probably turn out alright - as long as you have tutors who are experienced at school shadowing, and can stand up for themselves, it should fall into place when school start seeing the results for themselves. - That is the problem. They arent acknowledging the results. Even if its on data sheets.

Does the statement specify who is setting/monitoring targets, and who is responsible for recruiting? - it says the consultant will be in those meetings. Nothing about recruitment

How do you suggest I proceed?

Hmm, I think if I was you I would be insisting very nicely, but absolutely firmly, that as the statement specifies an experienced ABA tutor (rather than TA), this is what must happen.

Do you have tutors currently - presumably you do? It would make perfect sense for these to continue as school shadows, especially as presumably you'll be doing home sessions too, so essential for consistency.

School seem to have two arguments against using your tutors don't they: 1) cost, and 2) using a TA to help with other children.

So against their argument 1) you can say cost isn't an issue as you'll top up any shortfall.

And 2) your statement specifies an experienced ABA tutor with school shadowing experience, so this is what they have to provide.

The thing about whether the tutor will work exclusively with your dd or include some other children is a small point, I wouldn't get bogged down too much by that. The statement is for your dd alone, and they need to be reminded of this.

I know it's hard getting into arguments with school, but it is worth it long-term. We had an incredibly frosty start when ds started school - going through appeal, school turned against us and became a witness for LEA, even after we'd won school didn't implement statement for nearly 2 terms, I ended up writing to chief exec of LEA, and copied headmaster in - but a couple of years later it's settled down and school generally accept what we want (more or less), and we have a good relationship on the whole (made difficult only by one person at school). Don't get into an argument with them about the pros and cons of ABA - it's not their decision whether to use this approach, you've won it in your statement, so that's what they have to provide. They're not experts in autism or ABA.

It's definitely worth you sticking to your guns now, as if you let them do the hiring, you'll probably never be able to reverse that decision. And imo the recruitment of Shadows is the most important thing. A TA will not be able to deliver ABA.

Did you recently win this at tribunal? (Sorry, I know there were a few tribunals not so long ago, but haven't been around that much recently, apologies if it wasn't you!)

Baily - We went to tribunal. The hearing did not finish that day. Between the day of hearing and the next hearing we got into discussions with the HT who finally agreed.

we are happy to top up, we already are. Our consultant has hinted to the HT that if cost is the only issue, parents can top up.

Our tutors already go in, but have failed to impress the senco, class teacher and the HT :(

My husband & I had a meeting with them and explained how each IEP was being tracked.

The school have agreed to advertise for tutors at a lower rate - which we are happy about.

I think the problem here is one that is inherent in the system and why most schools do not like ABA tutors.

TAs are used flexibly. They are not supposed to be, but usually, the school gets/finds the money 'equivalent' to the cost of a TA and then can use that TA in any way that they like, and the school, and teacher then decide where that TA is placed and with who.

If they can't use the TA flexibly due to constraints of an ABA programme, they lose out and have to hire additional staff to cover the other disruptive children, the year 6 school trip and the booster classes at SATS time.

I also think that my reason given is why they don't want your tutors. They want TAs who will do as they are told.

Look. I know you don't want to fall out with the school, but they are undermining your programme. They want to use their own staff and they want those staff to be loyal to them and do their bidding, and conform to the system and education version that they would prefer to deliver.

Data collection is a fundamental part of ABA. It is also the clearest form of evidence that that which is supposed to be happening, isn't, so it is no wonder that the teacher doesn't want documentation of a TA supporting someone else etc.

I think you need to stick to your guns otherwise it will get messy. They don't know what they don't know. You can compromise and be flexible in every other way imaginable, but data collection and exclusive provision for your child has to be the baseline.

Can you ask for a trial with your tutors?

Or with their tutors but with full data-collection?

It doesn't matter if they deny the data sheets. TBH, I imagine that they saw them and they scared them and that is why they don't want any more.

Accountability plus evidence of their shit alternative provision for your child but many other children too. They have therefore convinced themselves that it is immoral to take data or something.

Perhaps they were hoping that after a period of time they could give their professional opinion that it was all a load of rubbish, but they can't if good data is produced.

In any case that data needs to be available for the LA to see so that they don't think about taking the provision away, or know they'll be on the backfoot at a new tribunal.

I wonder if the LA are behind it. If you were obviously likely to win, perhaps they convinced the HT to accept but with conditions!?

I wonder how much contact they are still in (worth doing a FOI?).

Of course, I remember your tribunal now.

Yes, school always want control of staff.

It's depressingly unenlightened that they put that above the progress and development of a child with SN

I think the main concern here is who is employing the tutors. It's partly as Star says, about wanting to utilise them for other duties (which they always do), but also partly as they just can't bear to admit that their methods are inadequate and that some outside experts might possibly be better.

Anyway, it's good that they are at least recruiting ABA tutors rather than TAs. Do you know where they are looking to recruit?

I would still suggest you try and retain as much control over the tutors as you can, as if they were 'your' tutors rather than schools. Eg make sure that you and consultant/supervisor is always involved in setting targets, IEPs. Daily data sheets even if completed after sessions. Get the tutors to come to home sessions and team meetings. It will only work effectively if the tutors work as if they are part of your home team, even if they are on paper employed by school.

Are you still doing any home sessions?

Do you know where they are looking to recruit? - I quite shamelessly emailed the SENCO and he has of course ignored me. I have mentioned that her current tutors want to apply and can they send their CVs to you directly - no response.

Yes we are doing home sessions - 2-3 hours in the mornings. When she goes to reception, I am desperately hoping that the tutors ("their's" or "mine") will warm up to me. Our plan is to run the ABA sessions 50 weeks/year

I agree its all about control. If I was to share my true feelings at this point, I really dont care if they are school's or mine. I know that unless they do some of the TA duties, the school will moan(unfortunate truth and a waste of public resources). But so long as they are ABA trained and work to the consultant's specs I am happy. We will run a home program for 10-15hrs/week depending on tutor availability(evening and weekend tutors are harder to find).

As of now I have way too much control which I dont think the school likes. I make the data sheets, all flash cards, transfer data to target sheet, maintain daily checklist etc etc.. I raised it with the school this time. Our statement says 15hrs ABA (nursery year). To provide that 15 hrs of ABA, ideally you need to fund an extra 2 hours/week - 1 hr for the meetings and atleast 15 mins daily for data sheets.. they were speechless.. my consultant quite helpfully pointed out that we dont have funding.. all we have is a helpful mother who is doing the work of a lead tutor(which I want to continue doing).

I would honestly love for other kids to benefit from our tutors.. but I dont want my daughter to be the guinea pig to a TA who will act as an aba tutor...

This is so stressful. I was hoping once ABA starts in school I would be able to focus on OT:(

Is the school expected to fund the first £6000 of 1:1 and LA will top up?

If the school or LA can't find people then they must use your staff. I suspect the funding issue is LA want school to employ tutors so the first £6000 is paid from school budget. School don't want to use your staff poss because not usual rate, poss because are letting own TAs go, poss because control / can't pool TAs in same way. That's really a battle for school and LA to have.

The nuclear option may be to go to another school in sept that will employ / use your staff.

You shouldn't top up. There is a legal obligation on LA to provide 30 hours 1:1, if LA can't do that for it's original price tag / way it wanted it will have to pay more.

I'd be tempted to write to LA formally and ask for confirmation of how they intend to meet the statement in sept given only 3 weeks left of term and no one yet in place.

Absolutely refuse to share the ABA tutor, DS tutors do work in groups when it's right for him but he is their focus. They don't do general TA duties - the only time they did (tutor felt pressed into sweeping up and told teacher to keep eye on DS) he escaped from classroom. They didn't ask again!

The legal duty lies with the LA to provide what's in the statement.

In the long run a school which will welcome and support ABA may be better than a school which is determined to show ABA is not needed. I would think carefully whether this is a school you can work with or whether even at this stage it is better to jump ship. The statement and ABA is more important that the school, the ABA staff can make it work anywhere.

None of the schools want ABA.. atleast this one has agreed to try it(and they are currently)

What does HLTA rate point 26 mean scale wise? Dont know where to look up the salary scale points. This is London.

Agnes - I dont want to pick a fight on rates 'only'. So long as they assign an aba tutor, I am sure we can work on the rest.

What I don't understand though is why the school can't pay what is normally expected i.e. what they would fund with their resources 'usually' and the LA meet the costs of the resources above this.

That is what is supposed to be happening. The LA, not the school, should foot the bill for anything over 'usual' expenditure that is required to meet your child's needs. Otherwise, why do you need a statement at all?

Where I was, the HT circulars from the LA often contained directions to never allow or agree to even trial ABA programmes, even if they were funded by parents.

Star - The statement states that the school will fund htis from their own delegated formula funding. The HT said to us that the LEA has refused to help with any funding. I agree this is between the school and LEA and I should have nothing to do with all this. You raise a valid point

Then the LA has to give them more delegated formula than other schools, to cover what is not 'usually' funded by mainstream schools.

The statement is a document of needs and provision to match that. Funding arrangements are not relevant. If school don't have the resources they have to get them. The LA has a duty of care towards your child to ensure it happens. If they want to insist it comes out of the school budget then so what? The HT should not be moaning about it to you, but to the LA.

What does HLTA rate point 26 mean scale wise? Dont know where to look up the salary scale points. This is London.

See here.

Thanks Kakty3.. Is that pro rata then? i.e. term time only means you get paid 39/52 ?

Yes, it's pro-rata. Now, I understand there isn't a clear cut guidelines on how exactly this is calculated, believe it or not...

My interpretation is that if the statement was to say "x hours term-time only", then it's x hours multiplied by 39 weeks. You divide that figure by ~1820 hours (which is 44 working weeks, once holiday entitlement and public holidays are accounted for, times 35 working hours) to get the pro rata %.

You can then calculate the equivalent hourly rate, to which you need to add on-costs (standard is 26%, I understand).

You then should make argument that to deliver x hours of 1:1 therapy, a y hours of prep work is required (this is no different than a normal teacher/TA surely), so hopefully add a bit more to the mix.

A good practice is also to benchmark this against your LAs recent job posting for HLTA/SEN TAs--I made a collection of ten posting used to justify the hourly rate.

Thanks Kakty..