Questions about proposed.

[KOKOagainandagain]

What is this code for? In the LA EP report it says about learning environment 'DS2 will benefit from the opportunity to experience a whole school approach which enables all staff to have an awareness of social communication difficulties'

Proposed is crap of course. No SALT or OT despite being a patient for years and visited termly in school.

DS2 is moving schools in any case as we are moving house (out of an Essex school) and we need the home county to take over provision. Existing provision is not even in the statement.

That sentence sounds great in its intention but could be met by staff watching a 30 minute DVD in an after school meeting.

What ouryve said.

I think it is worse though because it is bog standard what is available in any mainstream school, written in a way that might think the parent is getting something extra.

Any sentence with 'benefit' and 'opportunity' is best scrapped.

Social communication difficulties account for the majority of disabilities now and mainstream schools are expected to have a 'whole school approach' to supporting them. 'Whole school' also means nothing (some schools do actually make it mean something but it is so vague you are not protected having this written in). At the most basic it means that all staff have attended inset that included a 15 minute discussion on Social Communication.

Actually re-reading it, it is one of the stupidest non-specific sentences ever.

But you were expecting it right?

Keep - does this mean you've got a Statement and not a NIL? Or is this just the EP report?

must be a statement towie as keep refers to 'proposed' not NIL

Yes - we have a statement despite the case worker refusing to tell me whether it was a nil or proposed over the phone because it had been posted 2nd class and I could read the letter once I returned to sofuckedoff. They had agreed to fax the proposed so I would get a copy before dashing to a MDT meeting with no less than 7 professionals and lasting 2 hours for mum who is currently incarcerated in a dementia ward and taking antipsychotics three times a day but at 3.30 was told they were too busy to fax it blah blah

LA rep refused to speak to me because she had to leave to do the school run (she expects me to understand her parenting needs?!), the computer wasn't working etc and when I said that's ok I'll speak to one of your colleagues she said nobody else was allowed to speak to me. How is this in the best interests of the child?

The rep is forcing me to tribunal so I have limited time to name part 4 and I still don't know what to do

There is a selective Indi with learning support that sounds great for DS2 - 1:1 support in or out of lessons and fantastic use of technology - voice recorders, dragon, PowerPoint etc. he is 2e and under attaining so would be average on literacy and maths tests but would be 'gifted' on VR and NVR. Does anyone have any experience that may help me?

I don't know how to work out whether to go for Indi m/s or Indi ss . It looks like I will have to go to tribunal in order to get a statement that accurately describes existing provision so I might as well go all out.

School is to age 13, small and with small classes with withdrawal and 1:1 and the EP report goes to great lengths to point out his need for a quiet and calm environment and how his performance in tasks is significantly impacted by high distract ability and how he is becoming increasingly anxious about himself as a learner.

But I fear that the LA won't fund him without tribunal and that the school would not touch him with a barge-pole if I got a decent statement and that by the time we got to tribunal the statement/WD would be decent

Star - the statements of the EP are very vague and can be interpreted as an argument in support of unit or ss or m/s which is quite useful atm because I don't know what to fight for. Obviously I would have collected more evidence before tribunal and would want my own EP report.

It's incredibly difficult to get m/s indie because whilst you will be able to demonstrate your child coukd perform better there it will be argued as rolls Royce because anyone's child could, whereas SN school is more 'specialist' to 'need'.

What about the fact that Indi m/s is significantly cheaper than Indi ss (LA have no appropriate provision)?

keep - what is the main area of difficulty - is it dyslexia or other things? I think I will be following you on this journey - im finding myself thinking ahead and even if I get as far as you school placement is going to be a huge issue. we have no specialist schools for at least 150 miles the cost of the specialist boarding school im finding for my daughter to be around £20k. there is an indie m/s school with a unit in the next city but doubt that would work as they seem to want them to sit an exam to get it and the cost with transport would be similar to a specialist boarding school - im thinking of fighting for specialist dyslexia school and then stumping up the cost of travel for the next 5 years to keep the costs down. my only saving grace at the moment is that the judgement states that the tribunal have huge reservations that any mainstream primary could offer the support/small classes she currently gets.

im glad you got your proposed but your LA sound awful and on par with mine - you have some much going on at the moment x

I think it is more about the cost of the indi m/s should other parents follow you.

The argument will be that if they can manage in a mainstream indi without the specialist provision then they can manage in a state mainstream, with provision in place remove the barriers presented by the lower staff-child ratio (namely extra ta support).

Mainstream and SS are not supposed to be interchangeable really. SS are reserved for only the most severe, in which case they CANNOT cope with mainstream.

This isn't reality I am talking about, it is system fantasy land, which is the one you have to fight in.

Indi mainstream has been done though. But you increase your reliance on luck from the system.

bjk From reading about you both, it would seem to me that your LA is more like a circus act, a comedy of errors, with volatile individuals with weird chips on their shoulders and keeps is more institutional embedded practised bullying. Both dangerous but quite different.

Good news that it's a proposed and not a NIL. I was convinced it was going to be a NIL.

I think I would agree with Star that you'll find it harder for a indie mainstream. The LA would argue that you were trying to go for the "best" eduction - and our children aren't entitled to that. David Woolfe has quite a bit on this in his Noddy's Guide to SEN

Sorry about your mum. We have something similar going on with MIL. She's been in and out of a dementia ward for the last 6 months. Then they run out of beds, so discharge her, only for her to be blue-lighted back into a&e within 12 hours of discharge because she is an insulin dependent diabetic - and the dementia means she can't take care of her blood-sugars. She's been blue-lighted into a&e at least 10 times since Christmas (probably more times but I've honestly lost count). The situation is ridiculous and no-one wants to help. In some respects, getting help for someone with dementia is worse than trying to get SEN provision.

Might as well be a nil in terms of the content of the proposed but I now have a legal document and the right of appeal which is all I expected/wanted at this stage.

The difference to me with sen and delirium/dementia is that I don't give a fuck who I piss off. They can have a difficult meeting with me where their agenda is over-turned and they end up doing what I suggest and really hate me but 5 mins later are saying 'oh keep, I need your help already - can you get her to do x, y, z.' But the lies about entitlement - shocking.

Even if the idea was saleable to your LA, I think Indie MS is risky, anyhow. I know of 2 MNSN regulars who have that, on the grounds that the Indie MS marketed itself as having SN provision. Both have turned out to be pretty clueless.

Yes, sorry, I meant that it's better to have a wishy-washy proposed because now you only have one more Tribunal to get through instead of the 2 you'd have had if it'd been a NIL

The problem I have with my MIL's situation is that as she's my DH's mother, he is dealing with it. Let's just say he still hasn't properly learnt some of the lessons about dealing with pen-pushing bureaucratic illegal Councils/NHS that I learnt whilst fighting for my DS!

Mainstream always does less than it says on the tin ime. Even well meaning ones will know less than you and struggle with competing demands on time and money. You could buy in indi specialist provision to mainstream (we have ABA but could be private SLT, OT, dyslexia teacher). I find having someone paid separately so it's ring fenced for child works. Or go to indi ss where in house. With leaving age moving to 18 colleges are starting to put together 14-18 courses. Thinking ahead one option for ds may be SS 11-13 the back into m/s with a personalised package at 14. I do like ds being in m/s it does feel like good practice for real world but pushing ds out of his comfort zone is a big issue for us, he'd love things to be quieter and less distracting but I fear that he's end up at 18 sat in his room watching cartoons all day rejecting the noisy busy world entirely. Indi m/s with pull outs and bought in specialists can work too. I don't think the perfect school exists we've been lucky that with ABA and private SLT we've been able to improve on m/s and make it specialist. With council cuts and personal budgets I think councils are beginning to wake up to the idea it's cheaper to buy in extra provision to mainstream than use out of area indi. Sen officers here being told find creative solutions to avoid indi SS so we may see more private therapists in mainstream. It's rural area and transport costs huge so big savings to be made to bring the specialist to child instead of transporting child out.