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help needed pls tribunal witness

12 replies

oramum · 27/05/2014 19:31

My indie OT has had to pull out of being a witness at out hearing in 2 weeks against parts 2 + 3 due to family bereavement:(
I absolutely understand why she cannot make it but am now stuck for what to do. Im reluctant to adjourn as we have been fighting this battle for so long now and I feel that it will give the LA more chance to get evidence.
OT is probably dd's primary need. She urgently needs sensory integration therapy as an educational need.The LA dont have much in terms of evidence against us - just a discharge report from nhs OT stating dd's obvious sensory needs at home - hair brushing, teeth brushing etc. They also dont have an OT as a witness.
Our indies OT report is excellent and quotes 'dd urgently needs SI OT as an educational need'. It is 50 pages long and very detailed, specific and quantified.
Does anyone have any advice? Is a judge likely to not take notice of the report? Thanks

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bjkmummy · 27/05/2014 20:15

Is there any OT provision in the working document at the moment? Are the LA putting it in part 2/3 or 5/6?

oramum · 27/05/2014 20:21

In the original statement it was worded 'access to OT' and named in part 5 + 6.
Now in the working document the LA have removed it completely, even from parts 5 + 6 as NHS has discharged dd.
The OT report is very detailed, states how dds sensory needs are effecting her writing - putting too much pressure on pencil etc for sensory feedback.

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bjkmummy · 27/05/2014 20:26

I would think that if the LA are not providing any evidence to counter yours then your report will go in. I would place it into the working document in parts 2 and 3. At my hearing the LA got a counter OT report but it said the same as ours! The NHs OT although instructed by the LA refused to attend the hearing and the LA dropped her. The LA insisted OT went in part 5/6 but then on the morning of the hearing conceded the lot so everything we asked for we got and then that was one of the reasons the door opened to indie placement. We did take an OT with us though - although she wasn't the actual OT who had wrote the report - she was that OTs boss

beautifulgirls · 27/05/2014 20:28

We didn't have the OT appear at our tribunal and the LA did have the NHS OT come along. We still won the OT our daughter needed on the basis of the indi report we had. Our advocate basically pushed the NHS OT on the fact that her provision recommendations were based upon resources and their criteria, not specifically about the needs of DD. It was hard for their OT to deny DD had issues. Lots of questions were asked of the NHS OT about their staffing levels, waiting list times, caseload etc - you should be able to obtain this from the NHS fairly easily before your tribunal if they are not coming. Highlight your DDs needs particularly where the NHS has made even a close mention of a problem and then elaborate on that with the indi report. The panel are duty bound to consider all the information available to them. Your LA may bring along comments on the indi reports however from the NHS OT so it may be worth a chat with your Indi OT about the NHS report and where the indi OT can pick holes in it too.

oramum · 27/05/2014 21:01

Great thank you for the advice.
If the LA were to ask nhs OT about the indie report would this have to be submitted as late evidence as nhs OT is not a witness?
The NHS discharge report states that the therapist doesnt see any sign of 'motor dysfunction'.
Dd also has a dx of motor coordination disorder from NHS paed and indie OT plus indie EP (all included in evidence). Plus previous NHS OT states motor coordination disorder.
The OT report the LA are using is written by NHS OT who literally met dd for 10 mins and didnt perform any assessment.
Would I have to do a FOI request for NHS OT waiting list and caseload info?

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Icimoi · 27/05/2014 21:19

Woud the OT be prepared to give evidence by phone? You can apply to the tribunal for permission to deal with it that way. I think they set up a speakerphone.

billiejeanbob · 27/05/2014 21:22

thanks Icimoi I will ask her.
Ive just checked the NHS OT report and the therapist who has written the evidence for the LA hasn't even seen dd since her initial observation in October 2013! I thought that evidence for tribunal had to be within 6 months of the tribunal date?

oramum · 27/05/2014 21:46

Sorry name change fail Blush

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beautifulgirls · 28/05/2014 10:00

I think that not having any standardised testing will not be in the NHS report favour, especially when there are other reports that all note her motor skills issues. Make sure you have all the other even old reports available to back up your indi report. It will be very easy for you I think to push the fact that the NHS are over-stretched and sadly your feeling is that she was discharged due to caseload pressure. Without standardised testing I am not sure how the tribunal can take that report seriously when your indi OT has standardised results proving a problem exists. Once they acknowledge there is an issue then they need to ensure appropriate support is there, and of course the only advice they can then take is that from the indi reports as the nhs are not offering up any advice for ongoing therapy.

I can't honestly remember when the LA got their opinions on our reports logged sorry. They may well try and add stuff in late - be prepared to have this happen. In all honesty though unless you have a really good reason for it not to be admitted I would let the panel decide for themselves about admitting it or not - if you argue against it going in without a good reason then you potentially make yourself look difficult to the panel. They may of course just not allow it anyway and take the opinion that they had plenty of time in advance for this, which should be the case!

beautifulgirls · 28/05/2014 10:04

by the way...make sure your wording if you win is about therapy coming from OT who is experienced in delivering sensory integration therapy. It would be worth an ask to the NHS once again, but I am pretty sure that most NHS OT depts. do not provide sensory integration therapy. You will need to get the wording very tight so that the LA can not wriggle out of provision if the NHS default, given that the NHS are very likely to default and provide therapy here. The LA will be obliged to provide a private OT to come in and deliver the therapy in that situation.

oramum · 28/05/2014 22:08

Thanks beautiful girls.
I have included within my evidence bundle -
Nhs OT report stating motor coordination disorder and results from standardised assessment showing issues.
Paed letter dx motor coordination disorder.
Paed email stating sensory issues.
NHS OT report stating 'a very high level of adult support is needed' with more standardised assessment results.
indie EP report stating no hand to eye coordination and fatigue.
I also have an advantage that my OT has been into school to see dd in her educational setting, whereas NHS have only seen her in clinic.

I think that our case is quite straightforward really as we have evidence from nhs paed and previous OT. The first OT left the service then dd was allocated the new OT who observed her for 10 mins then discharged.

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oramum · 28/05/2014 22:11

Thanks for the advice RE the sensory integration therapist. My indie report is very specifc, states qualifications and experience needed of the therapist, so im going to copy and paste to working document.

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