SALT's recommendation - Is this for a mainstream school with a S&L unit or a specialist S&L school?

[ChrisInNeed]

Background - I am appealing to tribunal for Parts 2, 3 & 4. DS (7) has severe S&L impairment, dyslexia and ASD. He has average (43rd Percentile) non verbal cognitive ability per the WNV. The Independent SALT & EP are very clear that DS's severe needs necessitate a specialist S&L school setting and I have a placement offer from one.

The NHS SALT's report states:
1.XXXXX presents with a specific severe language impairment (i.e. receptive and expressive), which will have an impact on his ability to access the National Curriculum being delivered in school. XXXXX’s language impairment appears to be specific, as XXXX (EP) identified his non-verbal skills are within the average range. It is expected that as the demands of the curriculum increase with age, the gap between XXXXX’s abilities to access the language and learning and those of his peers will widen. XXXXX also presents with impaired social communication skills, in-line with his diagnosis of ASD.

1. XXXXX would benefit from a modified and differentiated curriculum, where the language and his learning will be tailored to his needs through small group specialised teaching. XXXXX would also benefit from continued ‘specialist’ level input from Speech and Language Therapy with the input of additional services that has helped and supported XXXXX in his learning and social communication and interaction skills with others. Therefore it is felt it would beneficial for XXXXX to be in a provision where he would still have these opportunities as and when appropriate, to integrate and/or be amongst mainstream models to further develop his social communication skills with adult facilitation and support."

I have noted the vague words "...would benefit from...."!

1.Presumably this rules out DS's existing mainstream school? (with no specialist unit)

2.I would appreciate your views if whether this means that the recommendation is for a

• Mainstream school with a specialist S&L unit
• Specialist S&L school
• either.

I am asking as not sure if a mainstream school with a S&L unit is normally able to provide a "modified and differentiated curriculum, where the language and his learning will be tailored to his needs through small group specialised teaching."

I would say a specialist unit in mainstream. One of the specialist units we've seen have the children in a separate small class with SLT support and specialised teachers but integrate for play, lunch, pe, assemblies etc,. The second bit of point 2. Talks about integrating with mainstream and having models... It really depends what is available in your area though as to which offering is most appropriate. If the units are much more integrated with less small group teaching them it might be necessary to specify a special school to get the correct input.

Agreeing about a specialist unit in a mainstream school as being recommended as ideal - though the schools available in your local and wider area will dictate what is actually possible.

Thanks to all for the responses.

Whilst the general consensus is that this appears to recommend specialist unit in a mainstream school, presumably a specialist S&L school which can also meet the stated needs is not ruled out by the NHS SALT's recommendations?

Its probably obvious, but just to clear, the NHS SALT's assessment was commissioned by the LA to counter my independent one. The NHS SALT did have a copy of my independent SALT's report clearly justifying the need for a specialist S&L school as the latter believed that a unit in a mainstream school would not be able to meet his severe and extensive needs. The NHS SALT appears to have a different opinion.

Presumably it will be a case of whose evidence the Tribunal believes at the hearing? (Both plan to attend as expert witnesses).

As ever, I appear to have written an essay, but your fight sounds very similar to the one I had with my LA (and I "won").

The NHS SALT may be advocating a SALT unit instead of a specialist school, but that is hardly surprising as the LA are the NHS SALT's masters. It shouldn't be the case but they are - in my DS's case, the NHS SALT had to ask the LA for permission to release their NHS report of MY DS's S&L to ME. The LA originally said "no" so I never got to see the NHS S&L report until my solicitor did a DPA subject access on the LA - it wasn't even included in my DS's Final Statement (although it was an appendix) and my solicitor directly asked the LA for it (but it still wasn’t sent to me)

Your original post also mentions dyslexia and ASD. So he is a young man with complex issues? It is this complexity which "might" win you the specialist school placement. What percentiles does your DS have for dyslexia? How far behind his chronological age is he? Has the indie EP categorised his dyslexia as "mild", "moderate" or "severe"? How severe is the ASD? I have no knowledge of ASD so I don't know if the terms "mild", "moderate" or "severe" are appropriate for this?

These other dx and provision (if they are in part 2 and part 3) are also very important because any potential school will have to provide for these too. In my DS's case, the LA were trying to place him in a mainstream SALT unit, but I wanted (and "won") an indie school placement in a specialist dyslexia school. (My DS has dyslexia/S&L/ADHD/dyspraxia/APD)

My indie SALT pointed out during the hearing that it was vital that any teaching/therapy was very much integrated with each other. She said that any SALT would have to liaise directly with any dyslexia specialist teaching to ensure they were using the same "teaching methods" as each other. She pointed out it would be very easy for, eg, the SALT to take one approach with him, but then the dyslexia specialist teacher might unintentionally undermine that approach. This would obviously be very confusing for my DS because he'd perhaps be taught two different methods for one task.

Because of his complex needs, my indie experts calculated that if my DS went into the mainstream/SLT unit school, 5 hours per week would have to be factored in for the SALT, OT, specialist dyslexia teacher, CT etc talking to each other about DS and their approaches to him. So 5 hours a week which wasn’t even direct therapy but for “meetings”!

During the hearing, all my indie experts emphasised that he was complex young man and needed an integrated approach to all his needs. They also pointed out that in a mainstream/SLT unit setting there could be problems with any actual therapy/specialist teaching if, for example, my DS couldn't/wouldn't engage one week. In a mainstream/SLT unit setting, if he couldn't/wouldn't engage one week, then that would be one less opportunity for him and a whole week would be wasted until the next session (so, in practice, there would be two weeks between sessions). In an indie setting, the therapist/specialist teacher could just move the session to the next day. (The Judge listened very intently at this point and even nodded her head in agreement)

Also at my DS's indie school, the CT and therapists consult with each other and rotate the children's therapy sessions each week so that a child doesn't keep missing the same class lesson week after week. This is important because of a child's legal right to be able to have access to the NC (although this might not be so important with a primary school aged child).

You don't say in your original post if a mainstream school with a SALT has been named in part 4? If such a school has been named, then a very pointed FOI directly to the school's headteacher is your friend. As part of the FOI, you need to ask the headteacher very explicit questions about the provision at his/her school - each question must not leave any "wriggle room". So, for example:-

• How many children are in the school?
• Of that number, how many children are in the SALT unit?
• How many SALT classes are there within the unit?
• What are the age groups for the SALT classes?
• For the children in the SALT unit, how does the school-day comprise? For example, are they in the SALT unit in the morning but return to the mainstream classrooms in the afternoon? If not that, then what is the model?
• How often does a qualified SALT attend the unit? Weekly? Monthly? etc
• How does the qualified SALT split their sessions eg 1:many; 1:2, 1:1?
• How many sessions per week does each child get with the qualified SALT
• What qualifications does the external SALT hold?
• What was the exact date the qualified SALT was last at the school (In my DS's FOI, this produced the very surprising answer that no qualified SALT had set foot in the school for exactly 4 weeks prior to the date of the FOI reply. So the LA/school could hardly back-up their claim that there was a qualified SALT weekly on-site!)

As part of the FOI, you also need questions about the CT and any TAs and their qualifications and ratios (eg 1:10, 1:20 etc). Also ask similar questions about the dyslexia and ASD. For example:-

• How often does a specialist dyslexia teacher attend the unit (this will more than likely be "not applicable"!)

• How many children in the unit have a dx of dyslexia on their Statement? (This will also be "not applicable" especially if your LA doesn't "believe" in dyslexia)
• How does the unit handle dyslexic pupils (that'll be an interesting response! The answer is likely to be "by using Toe by Toe" - which is a great resource for dyslexic pupils but is by no means the only approach which should be used!)

You also need to find out how many children in the mainstream/SLT unit have a similar profile to your DS of S&L/Dyslexia/ASD. Again, the answer is likely to be "none". If it is "none" then this will help your case because you want to argue that DS should be taught with children of a similar profile.

You may also find online in the school's prospectus that they will state that they only take children with a S&L dx and no other needs. The school my LA was trying to send my DS to stated this in their on-line prospectus and the teacher in charge of the unit (called as a LA witness) even stated this during the hearing (she was jumped on by the judge over this point).

Plenty more I can say. But I've run out of steam. Good luck!

May

Thank you so much for your very helpful response. Much appreciated.

You have provided some excellent arguments which apply in DS's case too.

An update to address the questions raised:

• DS (7) has only just been diagnosed with Dyslexia and this was identified by the independent EP during her recent assessment (The LA's EP did not pick this as part of her assessment for statutory assessment).

*I need to check if Dyslexia is mild, moderate & severe. Not sure if there are specific tests to be administered to determine the level of severity.

*As regards ASD, behaviour is good i.e. no shouting/screaming/unprovoked violence etc. but needs to be managed as he will usually do what he wants to and not what is expected/needs to be done.

DS's non-verbal cognitive ability (WNV) is average (43rd percentile). He has a spiky profile across the WNV subtests* - average in 'Matrices' and in 'Coding', above average in 'Object Assembly' and very low in 'Recognition'

Although in Year 2, he is still on P levels in most areas*. Further details and assessment scores on this post:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs/2075961-Can-P-Levels-scores-using-PIVATS-be-used-to-determine-if-academic-progress-is-adequate

• Although 7, his S&L skills have been assessed to be those of a 3-4 year old.

• The existing mainstream school (where DS has been attending since reception) has been named in part 4. Until now the school and LA have maintained that it can meet his needs. I am not sure if now, in the light of the above recommendations by the NHS SALT, they will change this position and now nominate a mainstream school with a S&L unit.

• My Part 4 choice is a non-maintained specialist S&L school where DS has a firm placement offer. School has experienced specialist staff and resources to cater for pupils with a profile similar to DS i.e. severe S&L impairment, ASD and dyslexia. Other pupils there have average ability (nonverbal cognitive) similar to DS.

Now had a chance to read all your threads

I think you will be going to a full scale hearing. The LA won't concede because a) you are going for an expensive placement which is far greater then the cost of the one they can provide. b) They will be fighting you out of principle and to stop other parents doing the same ("how dare this stupid parent do this to us, we'll show them who's the boss"); and c) They have nothing to loose by challenging you - they won't have extra costs for the day of the hearing and will get a nice day out away from the office/school.

Sorry - very cynical of me, but true.

At my DS's indie ss, only a handful of children's cases were conceded before hearing. They are in the minority. There is absolutely no rhyme nor reason as to why one child went to full-scale hearing, whereas another was conceded. In some cases, the more "severe" children are the ones whose LA's didn't concede. There isn't even consistency across the children within the same LA!

You need to do the FOI (as I discussed upthread) on the existing mainstream school which has been named. Serve the completed FOI as part of your extra evidence on evidence deadline.

If a new school is offered (with SALT unit), then it is likely there won't be time for a FOI. Instead, go into the new-named school yourself (much better if your indie EP can go with you) and ask the same questions directly to the HT and head of SALT unit. After your visit to this new school, immediately write this up as a very emotionless business-like report. Question A followed by Answer A. Get this admitted as late evidence.

Remember. Very very specific questions which they can't wriggle out of.

Also ask any new school if they have received and read the complete Final Statement with all appendices and ALL reports inc indie ones (my LA didn't do this and this was the basis of my main complaint to the LGO)

Don't worry about the very short timescales on this report. I did exactly this and was able to get a complete and final report back to my lawyer on the same day as my visit to the LA school. I just blocked out that same afternoon and wrote it up immediately. My report was so thorough that it was used both by the tribunal during the hearing, and then by the LGO investigator after I complained about TOWIE County Council's behaviour.

Don't worry if the school refuse to sign your report. I forgot to ask. But, during the hearing, the LA's solicitor very kindly gave me a "gift" by asking me "who completed your report?" To which the head of the S&L unit immediately piped up that she had completed it!! Thank you LA and school - they very conveniently proved my report was true! So if you don't get a signature on it, ask them during the hearing "who answered my questions". It'll be even better if indie EP is there with you because you will also have a indie professional to verify your report.

Tbh, if a LA school with SALT unit is named, then you will have a much harder time convincing the Judge and panel that this school can't meet need. It is likely the LA will successfully argue that their school can meet your DC's S&L needs. This is why you need to tighten up your understanding of your DC's other dx/provision. In my DS's case the LA school could meet all my DC's needs EXCEPT the dyslexia.

It was the LA's school's inability to provide for the dyslexia coupled with not being able to properly integrate all the therapy that "won" my case. We didn't talk about the specific S&L element at all because both my school and their school could meet his needs inhouse with existing resources.

If another mainstream school is named (with SALT unit) I would suggest that your challenges are

• is there pupils with a similar profile? (Eg S&L/dyslexia/ASD)

• what qualifications/experience do the teachers have for dyslexia? My LA argued the HT was dyslexia-qualified - but during the hearing, it turned out that this was a ECC 3 day course and the HT hadn't even completed it because of pressure of other work. The school and LA just looked silly on this and it was noted in the Judge's Decision. The judge agreed that my DS has to be taught by someone with a post-grad qualification in dyslexia. Tighten up your understanding of your DC's dyslexia needs.

• I don't know anything about ASD so can't offer specifics. But argue the ASD in similar manner to the dyslexia - eg qualifications/experience/other pupils etc.

• look online to see the entrance criteria/profile. Does your DS match their criteria? If not, why has this school been named? Has part 4 been "fitted up" to match part 2 and part 3? There is case law that each part has to be done in strict order - ie 4 can only be done AFTER 2, then 3. Include this in your report on the school.

• how can they provide all the non-speech elements of the quantified provision? Is it bought in? If its bought in, eg an OT, will it be the same OT person week after week? If it's bought in, it's likely to be "whoever is available", in which case how will your DC cope with a different therapist each week? My DC has (very valid) trust issues with therapists - he simply would not have been able to engage with a different therapist week and week. He likes to "push his luck" with his therapists until they get the measure of each other, and he has learnt to trust the person. A different therapist week after week would not work for him. I have also found that it normally takes the most experienced of therapists /specialist teachers quite a few sessions with him before they manage to get to grips with his needs (he is a charmer who could charm the birds out of the trees and uses the strength of his personality to get out of things he finds difficult!!). If your DC has trust issues and needs "continuity of care", how will he cope with a different eg OT therapist each week?

• Does your DC need a holistic approach to education? If so, how can the mainstream/salt unit provide this approach? For example, DS's OT is in class some days so can help the children during their normal class work - it isn't always a separate session with her but is part of the normal class lesson. Class teacher has the post-grad qualification in dyslexia so all DS's teaching is with a properly qualified CT.

• self esteem is very important with SEN children. Learning can sometimes nose drive for SEN children with low self esteem about their ability. How will any school cope with DS's self-esteem - especially if he comes to realise he is "different" to other children if he is placed in the mainstream/SLT unit?

I would urge you to concentrate on the complexity of your DS's needs. Don't just focus on the S&L elements.

May

Many thanks for sharing some brilliant insights. You are a fountain of wisdom!

The indie expert reports clearly highlight the full complexity of DS's needs and I believe provide cogent justification of why a specialist S&L school is needed and why a mainstream school with a unit cannot adequately meet DS's complex needs.

Looks like it will be hard fought debate at the hearing between the indie experts and the LA's.