Can P Levels scores (using PIVATS) be used to determine if academic progress is 'adequate'?

[ChrisInNeed]

Background

*I am going through a Parts 2/3/4 SENDIST appeal. LA (with school support) are opposing my nominated school on the grounds that the is making adequate progress in the existing mainstream school and so it can meet his needs. Their 'evidence' is the P Levels scores (computed using PIVATs) for the past 4 quarters tabled below.

*DS (7) has severe S&L impairment and ASD. S&L tests (CELF) reveal he is on the 0.1 percentile (yes 0.1!) across the various sub-tests for receptive and & expressive language. Per the EP's standardised tests, non-verbal scores are average, indicating he has latent skills. (e.g Without any assistance, he can navigate the 3 mile route from home to his favourite supermarket, patiently clicking step by step on Google Streetview - a route which involves making the correct choices around a dozen road junctions!)

*While scores below do suggest some improvement, my view is that given his latent skills, the progress is not adequate.

My Questions
*Is there a statistical table (Note 1) of P Level scores for a large population which can be used to determine:

• For a neuro typical child how much the score increases over a period?
• If the progress per the table below can be termed 'adequate'?

*What is the element of subjectivity, if any, involved in assessing P Level scores using PIVATs?

Note 1: I mean a statistical table which indicates that an average/ neuro typical child who is on score PX at a point in time he is expected to be on score PY after Z months.

The 'adequate progress' argument may be made by the LA in the Tribunal Hearing and so would appreciate if someone could please enlighten me how to counter it.

Thank you.

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Table of P Scores using PIVATS over the past year (as assessed by the Class teacher):

Date Jan13 Apr13 Oct13 Feb14
Class Y1 Y1 Y2 Y2
Age (Y;M) 6;02 6;05 6;11 7;03

Literacy

Reading P6C P6d P7a P8c

Speaking
& Listening P5e P5b P6a P7d

Writing P5d P6d P7d P8c

Maths

Using and
Applying P6c P7e P8C 1Ae

Number P6b P7b P8b 1Ca

Shape
and Space P6a P7d P8c 1Ce

Science

Scientific
Enquiry P5a P6a P7d P7b

Life processes
& Living Things P5d P5a P6a P7c

Materials P5c P6d P6b P7b

Physical
Processes P5a P6c P6a P7b

PSHE
Conduct
Behaviour P6a P7d P7d P7c

Emotional
Behaviour P6a P7b P8e P8d

Learning Behaviour P6b P7b P7a P8c

It seems bizarre that you're having to argue this, given that he's not even accessing the NC yet, at the end of Y2. These scores wouldn't even be relevant for most NT children in Y2 as, on average, they will be NC level 2b.

You need to look beyond academic progress. Are his social needs being met in his current school (DS2 has a similar profile to your DS and is now in Y3 and we are happy with his placement largely because of how much he is getting out of spending time with NT children at playtime and how well he is supported).

If you have the SENCOP to hand, there's a wonderful paragraph about what constitutes adequate progress. Academic progress is 1 of about half a dozen issues.

I think that's your key argument tbh - how is he going to access the national curriculum, given that across the board P level scores show that at the end of Year 2 he hasn't to date?

Education is NOT being babysat in a school environment 6 hours a day, it's being educated - which is clearly not happening here either socially or academically (I'm looking at the pshe scores for social data).

"Education is NOT being babysat in a school environment 6 hours a day, it's being educated - which is clearly not happening here either socially or academically"
I'm not sure one can conclude this from the information given. 2 whole p levels is huge progress, tbh, if a child has a LD.

OP, Hampshire use CASPA which is a p level progression database. It has 'typical progression'charts for different cohorts of children based on primary need. If you Google it, you can get a free evaluation copy.

I think you would be in difficulty arguing inadequate progress unless you can show higher cognitive ability on other tests, because has gone up a sub level each time in every area. NT children would be expected to make 2 levels of progress per key stage which usually means 1-2 sub levels per year, and they will say 2 sublevels pivats per year is equivalent rate progress.
That said I think NC levels and pivats are very inaccurate for children with a spiky profile, asd and language problems. Also depends hugely on class teacher knowing your child well enough and enough about autism to score them accurately. Not a given IME. Ask to see the pivat tables and score him yourself, I never assessed DS at same level as class teacher because she spent zero time with him and didn't get him at all.
This time last year DS (7) was about p6 for maths I thought that was rubbish as his ability was higher I put primary maths app on his iPad and he taught himself 2 years maths curriculum in about 6 weeks and school rescored him as 1b. Well children with LD do not make that much progress so clearly the problem was with the teaching and low expectations and not DS ability. a year on scores 2b for maths tests even though he skips out all the word questions and can't follow instructions like 'circle the correct answer'. So he is scoring age level while only being able to answer half the paper.
Providing evidence of what he can do outside school with individualised teaching might help, our experience was school did not know how to teach him to his potential (we've moved school since then).
Primary maths app is fab by the way if you have iPad.
I would also echo that being on p scales in key stage 2 is a problem as the child cannot access the curriculum their peers are studying. DS is NC 1 language and he struggles in yr 2, he's still only at 3 key word understanding. You can just access yr 2 curriculum at 3 key words but only with a lot of adjustment (different resources, visuals etc). How many key words is your DS? That's a factor in accessing mainstream.
There can be other reasons to be in mainstream eg social etc but I think you have to keep asking yourself what are they getting out of school because the reality is more and more they will be taught separately if on p scales / far behind. To be honest I think that is probably a stronger argument, that he won't be able to be taught as part of class next year.
DS language is much more of a barrier than his autism, he hasn't been tested recently but was 0.1 percentile too, i suspect he still would be.
He survives in mainstream because he has ABA staff with him who break the work down and present it in a way he can understand. He also doesn't go full time as learning in classroom is challenging for him and much of it is not relevant.
You can argue his underlying cognitive ability is higher but will need evidence to back that up and they may still say the language issue is the barrier to learning and because of that progress won't be any different in another school.
You can argue that significant % time in mainstream is wasted time spent on things which are not functional for your DS and in a special school all his time would be spent on things which are targeted at right level eg how functional is it for him to learn about Tudors or fractions when his language is so far behind, in specialist setting language could be prioritised and time spent making sure what is learnt is functional for real life. Academics are not very useful for my DS he needs to spend a big % time each week on language, social, life skills etc. You could argue his progress in a specialist school would probably be better as the curriculum would be more tailored to him.
Progress is just one element it's also about relevance, functionality, peer group. I'd probably focus on other arguments as well as saying progress doesn't reflect ability.

Thanks so much to all for sharing some brilliant insights and for the helpful comments and suggestions. Much appreciated.

@ouryve:
I don't believe his social needs are being met in the current school. He has a separate workstation in the class where he is taught 1:1 by the TA. (He gets 4.5 hours 1:1 TA support daily). He has very limited interaction with his peers. When I observed him recently, I saw NIL interaction with his peers over the 2.5 hours I saw him. This included lunchtime in the school cafe where he sat next to them but without a single word being exchanged. (A number of his peers were merrily chatting away). Similar observation in the playground after lunch: He just went on to the climbing wall and played on his own. He does not receive any support during the lunch break to help him socialise with his classmates.

@AgnesDiPesto
He does has a spiky profile per Weschler Non Verbal scale of Ability (WNV)
Overall (Percentile): 42
Sub tests: Matrices:50; Coding: 50; Object Assembly:79; Recognition:10

The LA's S&L report suggests he is at the 3 key word level - sometimes 4 (inconsistently).
Is there a guideline as to the number of key words ability which is expected at different ages to be able to access mainstream education?

Thanks again.

DS is similar level - non consistent at 3 word level, can sometimes do 4 dependent on context.
I don't know of any guidelines I just know at annual review our private SLT told the (last useless) school who was saying DS was too far behind that they could differentiate a Yr 2 curriculum to 3KW, while accepting that involved extra work for teachers, different resources and need for 1:1. Looking at my older children I can see DS language deficit is going to mean different work in KS2 from his peers. Do you have SLT witness? Its something they could give evidence on.
In KS2 literacy is more about higher language skills e.g. inference, persuasion, summarising, point of view etc - whereas obviously our children are still working on the basics.
That said there is a wide range - but P scales in ks2 would mean very different work.
DS moved off p scales a year ago and is now allegedly 1a in literacy (although I have doubts) so the gap is not quite as wide. He may also get to stay in yr 2 an extra year as new school has mixed age classes. However on top of mainstream provision he has a home ABA package so in effect has specialist education with part of it delivered in mainstream. If he just had mainstream TA etc he would not be able to learn in mainstream or make the progress he is. The school would not have the time to be able to provide the very individualised curriculum he needs.

@AgnesDiPesto
Fortunately I have an excellent indepth report from a brilliant reputable independent SLT with extensive experience at a number of NHS PCTs and advising specialist schools, and one who is also very experienced in Tribunal hearings. She will be one of my key witnesses. She is very clear that DS needs are so severe that he needs a specialist S&L setting. Ditto for the EP. Their reports are being shared with the LA.

For DS too, the way things are going, I just can't see him properly accessing the KS2 curriculum for a very long time, if ever, in the current mainstream setting. That would be a tragedy given his latent ability.

Do hope the LA is noble enough to accept the truth graciously now rather than pursue unnecessarily to the bitter end. Or maybe I am dreaming as its still twilight...

Just to add that the LA have at the eleventh hour commissioned their own EP, S&L, OT reports. Looks like this is an attempt to counter my independent ones.

The LA's expert reports during the statutory assessment process were very sparse e.g. the S&L one was just over 2 pages with Nil direct SALT recommendation - this despite recognising that DS was 2+ years behind in his S&L skills. The independent report is 40+ pages ...all top notch indepth analysis and justified recommendations (not padded with white space).

DS has been known to have severe S&L issues for 5+ years now but all the NHS SALT reports to date refer to his S&L development being delayed. The independent SALT is very clear that this is an impairment. I guess this will be a key point of contention & debate at the hearing, if the LA don't give in before that.

When I went to tribunal over DS1 the case was passed to their legal team and they requested EP, SALT and OT assessments. As they had not done SALT or OT for SA they had to drop OT (so my Indi report was uncontested) and they had to use Indi SALT as it was too late for NHS. The LA salt did the TOPS 3 assessment of higher level language comprehension which showed DS1 to be over 5 years delayed. They still went to hearing but conceded by lunchtime. I didn't get costs for expert witnesses - Margo sharp and Ruth Birnbaum or legal representation - Fiona Slomovic. If you are asking for Indi ss or ABA it is highly likely they will try to go all the way regardless how strong your case is.