CAMHS and anxiety, i want to kick them up the butt

[claw2]

"Children with anxiety shouldn't be allowed to avoid situations they find challenging"

"Giving a child lots of help is just another way of helping them to avoid"

Although I agree in part in with both of those statements, help is supposed to be about teaching the child the skills so they can cope.

Those kind of statements are exactly what LA and schools want to hear, as an excuse NOT to give a child the help they need to enable teaching of skills.

What are you thoughts?

Stoopid. As stoopid as saying 1:1 help makes a child dependent. Only if it is SHIT 1:1.

If the child needs to face anxieties, they need to do so in a carefully planned way with direct support and daily monitoring of stress levels to ensure the incremental steps toward the desired out one is optimal I.e moves them forward at a pace that doesn't risk regression.

That needs HUGE expert resourcing, not abandonment.

But they won't know what you are talking about and it will probably kill you to make them understand.

I'm having a similar problem atm.

Children with anxiety need manageable situations. This is why we pushed for DS1's new school. He still has to manage his anxiety and work alongside other children. It will only have to be a few children at a time, though. Not 20 or 30 or 1000.

It's perfectly possible to spend adult life not having to spend your working day milling around in a situation where there are so many other bodies that you're always on high alert, so why do so many people insist that the holy grail of provision is teaching kids to "cope" with such situations in the name of "inclusion"?

CAMHS are getting on my nerves, they are as much use as a chocolate teapot.

I spoke to them about school being dismissive 'ds have limited grasp of reality' ie it didn't really happen, take it with a pinch of salt.

I told CAMHS as usual, school are trying really hard etc, etc, however I am concerned with what support ds will get, based on schools perception.

ie difficulties are responsible for his perception on reality - he needs support with difficulties to improve his perception on reality.

Ds has no perception of reality for no particular reason - lets just dismiss him and tell him NO it didn't happen like that.

Apparently 'throwing support at a child, helps them to avoid'

I told them I am not asking for support to be thrown at him, I am asking for them to teach him the skills he is lacking, to enable him to improve and asked how do we do that?

CAMHS for me to teach him!! Look on line, read books etc.

Patronising, I am working my bloody socks of with ds, there are only so many hours in a day!

Now with hindsight, I should have asked if they were recommended I home school ds!

I have placed dd2 in a sp sch for similar reasons to ouryve . I was told it was the easy option and that If I placed her in a unit in a mainstream primary with several hundred pupils she would have role models! She was three at the time I was not willing to stress my dd who has autism and cognitive impairment to suit an idea

Ask CAHMS to put it in writing that you are to go into school daily to teach him these skills. If it is your job they must empower you to do it.

I think there is some confusion around their perception of YOUR reality tbh.

They are assuming that you are complaining about the things ds is reporting as if they were fact and they are dismissing YOUR concerns about that, rather than your concerns about ds' perceptions iyswim.

But that IS the usual way. DD cried at school yesterday because they were practicing the a section of school play and she plus 4 other hadn't got a line. This is because she is doing a whole poem later in the show which she will practice individually, not in the group rehearsal. She was inconsolable and even though told about her poem, still believed she'd been left out of the group thing. To her the poem thing was quite separate.

I spoke to the teacher about it who explained what had happened. The teacher and I can dismiss dd's concerns as they aren't real BUT a lot of effort was then put into not just explaining it all to dd, but actually ensuring she was a)understanding the situation and b)reassured and happy with it.

I won't say that things don't get a bit more complicated when social skill issues are thrown in, but your ds is entitled to the same level of 'service' my dd received.

I agree with the first statement as if allowed to avoid challenge ds world would get smaller and smaller until he never left the house. So we do challenge him daily by making him do necessary activities to function in later life. The second part is BS. Removing help would make it impossible for ds to do these challenging things. It would make it completely certainty he would avoid them. I hope that by keep pushing ds boundaries he will tolerate more and cope more and in time even choose to do them independently but that will only happen with constant support and exposure and small steps. And I'll be honest hoping at some point some maturity and motivation will emerge. I'm not sure how realistic that is other than even children with asd grow up eventually even if it is in slow motion and developmentally he is well behind his chronological age. In many ways he is a 7 year old toddler but perhaps he'll be a 26 year old teenager.

Star there will always be some confusion over MY reality, all the while school are reporting he is 'fine'. Its history repeating itself and 3 schools cannot be wrong.

Of course they're reporting he is "fine" because they're "correcting" him whenever he says he's not.

Well today ds has come home and told he 'was crying very much' because 'my stomach was really hurting, it felt like it was really bleeding and i felt sick'.

I tried to establish from ds the events leading up to this. Apparently while the other children went to assembly this morning, ds went off with TA to do 'exercises'. Sitting bouncing on a ball, rolling on a ball on his stomach and rolling backwards on the ball, were the ones he described which made me think oh that's why you felt sick. It was then playtime, so he went to the medical room.

He went to usual lessons after play time, then lunch, then come afternoon play, he went out, felt sick again. So was sent to the reception. A year 7 boy came to talk to ds and ds told him he felt bullied and about an older boy, who calls ds 'annoying boy' 'stupid' and 'idiot'.

His CT came, he told her about the bullying and that he felt sick, she sent him back into the playground and told him to go and play for last few minutes.

Can anyone else see the pattern there?

Movement, particularly both feet off the floor and backwards makes ds feel sick, it always has due to his sensory difficulties.

He has also felt sick at both playtimes, avoided it and spoke out about feeling/being bullied at playtime.

WHY I am the only one seeing this? Surely that is pretty straight forward?

Polter he has input OT! I am guessing these 'exercises' were on her advice.

Ds has been having 1:1 sessions with her for several weeks. At the meeting in school in last month, I asked HT, CT, TA, SENCO etc what kind of work she was doing with ds. No one knew. HT said he would get her to contact me directly. She emailed me giving me her telephone number, i emailed back explained my concerns and asked what work she was doing with ds. Said i would like to carry it over into home environment etc. She did not reply. I left a message on her answer phone, no call back.

Now either these exercises or the fact it was now playtime or both made ds feel sick. Im betting TA will not mention this to anyone.

Ds has spend both playtimes feeling sick, avoiding play, reporting feeling bullied and both CT and TA are aware of this. So why is CT telling me they see no signs of anxiety and playtimes are one of ds's 'strengths' where he plays happily with others.

God! OT input!

I think i need to go to bed, my head is aching and my concentration and spelling have gone to pot!

Polter, i will try and concentrate and make sense this time!

The vestibular is responsible for movement and head position?

Head movement, particularly backwards makes ds feel sick, even head back for a hair wash. Also both feet off the ground movement, swings, cant take his feet off the floor to pedal a bike etc, makes him feel sick. Spinning movement actually makes him sick.

So obviously quite a problem there. I know you are not an OT! but probably have more knowledge, how do you treat this difficulty, if expose to it, makes you sick?

Just very gradually?

Ds is the same Polter, he loves spinning, dangling, swinging from things, he is very sensory seeking. However although he seeks it, some of the movements make him feel sick or make him sick.

Its hard to explain and quite conflicting at times. For example, ds is always hanging upside down ie laying flat on the sofa, with his head and shoulders dangling over the edge. But he cannot sit up in the bath and tilt his head backwards. So laying down he can, sitting up he cant!

Spinning around, with both feet on the floor is fine, its when he takes his feet off the floor and/or the object he is sitting/standing on moves, he feels sick.

Roundabouts make him sick, fairground rides make him sick, but he still wants to get on them! Its like he seeks it, but then cannot tolerate it.

If and when you have time, if you wouldn't mind, that is very kind. I am sure trying to explain the above to anyone who hasn't a clue, would make me sound mad! It would really help if i had some understanding of it!

Yes i know the feeling, i am totally shattered but ds is still awake, so no sleep just yet!

Ds1 does a lot of rolling and swinging, too. I think the difference is that, at home, your DS is doing the things that soothe him, to some extent and probably has his own stop mechanism when the nausea outweighs the benefits, such as soothing restless limbs. the exercises he's doing with the OT are more prescriptive and, even if the OT has told him to stop if he feels uncomfortable, given his timidity, he might be afraid of doing that.

Actually, thinking on - the discussion in the G&C about POTS - I wonder if drops in blood pressure are behind your DS's "feeling sick" more than vestibular overload.

Thanks Polter, I have bookmarked the links with the ideas and books.

I have a brilliant indi OT report (although 'out of date') its still relevant, I refuse to pay for another one, which will say exactly the same. Any programmes need to carried over into school and home, not just home.

Sorry for all the questions, its just I have AR next week. I think its about time the 'professionals' started doing their jobs and letting me know what they are doing, rather than vice versa.

Thanks Ouryve, whenever ds 'reports' something to me, I naturally look for 'triggers'. In this specific scenario, it could of been a number things. It could of been due to the 'exercises', it could have been anxiety related...he avoided both playtimes and reported feeling bullied. He doesn't eat in school...I should imagine this would make anyone feel sick/ill and possibly drops in blood pressure and all kinds of things.

They need to start looking at ds's difficulties as a whole and seeing the knock on affect. They need to start addressing ALL of his difficulties to enable him to make any lasting progress.

I am fed up of having to be the 'expert' all the time. Its useless, unless others have the same insight.

Got school report for AR today.

Manage his high levels of anxiety - Does show some signs of anxiety, when outside of the class and away from form tutor. Generally improving and is happy to get on with work. OT has integrated some ideas into school routine. Ds has engaged well.

Use language to express his feelings - ds is confident at articulating his worries and will do so daily. However he needs to try and solve issues independently.

Increase his self help - Last terms showed signs of becoming a more independent learner, however this term he is beginning to regress and is increasingly relying on help from support staff.

Fine motor skills - Improving with help of OT.

Social interaction and ability to work as part of a group - Ds is happy and confident with his peers. However when ds is in a environment that he does not feel comfortable in, he will not join into group discussion and group work, despite encouragement from his peers.

Enclosed 2 IEP's with not targets not met.

This tells me nothing!!

'However he needs to try and solve issues independently'

I hate the use of language like this. Though it is typical.

how about: 'We need to find strategies to enable him to solve issues independently'.

If HE is expected to be the expert then they jolly well ought to pay him.

Starlight :o That was the exact thing that made me sit up straight, reading all that, too. How do they intend to help him do this? They need to make a start by helping him to distinguish which problems he can solve himself and which he needs support with. The problem is, because the feeling of being picked on is sometimes just a feeling, they're simply telling him to stop being silly and not helping him to talk through these fears in a constructive manner.

Thanks guys, I had intended to prepare for this AR. However due to my mum and the circumstances, I have barely had time to breathe.

Still I submitted my 'parental views' last month when AR was cancelled. I have only just received the school report, after requesting it in my parental views covering letter. I have basically rewritten ds's statement and quoted SEN COP and Case Law.

So I will assume that school are agreeing with me as

LA are providing 25 additional hours per week

From schools own resources
1:1 OT therapy
1:1 in school counselling
SALT

Small classes and groups for all lessons
Lunch time and after school sessions

I will just ask school to make some slight alterations to their report ie not placing the onus on ds.

Wish my luck