Could I ask parents of children with PDA?

[Weneedtotalkabout]

I have a DD who is very challenging and when I read an article on PDA it ticked a lot of boxes.

However I am not at all sure whether to even be wondering about PDA as some of it didn't ring true.

For example my DD wasn't at all passive in her first year. She was a difficult baby though and very sensitive to light, over stimulation, strange noises, rooms full of people etc. She had a lot of meltdowns as a baby. She met all her milestones.

My DD didn't have a language delay. She started talking from about 22 months so not early not late. She was however prone to selective mutism but I know that can be common amongst pre-schoolers anyway.

She is in Yr and very behind with her reading (she finds reading boring and doesn't want to sit down and do it- don't know how common this is among NT children though) . She prefers writing to reading.

She is very argumentative and it is difficult to get her to do anything. I don't think she has ever offered to help me and when I ask her to pick something up/take something to the kitchen she just says no. In the mornings getting her to get dressed/clean her teeth is usually one long struggle. She won't just do it. I have to do it for her and she'll only do it when she's ready but again perhaps procrastination is normal at this age.

The major things I identified is her need to control everything. She is highly manipulative and tries to control her sister's every move. Role play is no fun with her. She loves to play schools but she feeds you lines and you have to do/say everything exactly right or she gets very upset/angry. If her sister doesn't want to play/do something she tells her she hates her/hits her etc. I do know a lot of this is tiredness.

The professional i see think she has an attachment disorder and that she feels very insecure in her relationship with me. I'm aware that my anxiety around her doesn't help but I find her so difficult sometimes it creates my anxiety and we have a vicious circle.

I think the fact that my DD is an angel at school and eager to please there probably suggests she dosn't have pDA but i'd be interested to hear from anyone whose child is like that but then gets home and makes life hell for everyone particularly when tired. THe moment my DD comes in through the door after school is the moment she most wants to seize total control. She was noticeably less controlling during the holidays.

Sorry I meant to say my DD is 6. I realise I may be way off even thinking PDA but if any of you could even say why you suspected PDA and what were the main issues you had that might help.

Strangely enough it's as if I want some form of diagnosis because at the moment I can't accept it's all down to me and terrible parenting- that feels intolerably hard to bear. I have a second DD and I have no issues with her.

I do think my DD does have a very sensitive/anxious temperament that she has inherited from me but I find dealing with her little meltdowns/arguments over everything so very tiring.

Is it really common to be negotiating on every single request with a 6 year old child.

Thanks PolterGoose that thread is really interesting. It makes me aware that my DD's DA is probably at the milder end but the fact that it has persisted for so long past toddlerhood does make me think it's worth investigating further. I appreciate your advice on the possible way forward.

Again that's all very helpful and thank you for taking the time to post those links.

DS1 has diagnoses of ASD and ADHD and was about 6 or 7 when we learnt about PDA and realised that it all outlined what we'd been working out for ourselves about how he needed handling.

A couple of professionals have independently mooted PDA, since them, though the diagnoses he has are pretty much overarching on paper - his social skills are extremely disordered, for a start.

He was far from passive as a baby and toddler. He was up and at everything and bloody exhausting!

On what basis are professionals suggesting attachment disorder? Is it many or just one. If just the one, I'd be looking to distance myself from the services of that person, if it were possible to do so without incurring accusatory finger wagging.

"On what basis are professionals suggesting attachment disorder? Is it many or just one"

One child psychotherapist who has been very supportive generally but who has only seen me so far and believes my anxiety (and inability to say No) at root of her need to take control so they were helping me to control my own response to things. At first me trying to implement more structure and look to controlling my own response did have some effect but I am still unable to stop some of the more undesirable behaviours and often feel powerless.

I have only just found out about PDA so will raise at my next meeting. Interesting that your DC was into everything. Mine used to go round pointing at everything and demanding it.

Step away from the psychotherapy. It's all about the mother being at fault.

My son has dx of ASD (Aspergers), SPD, not diagnosed but strong and very distressing and exhausting OCD. I've read about PDA too and thought he may have this. The thing is as the children grow IMO they do change and Im not sure if sometimes they all just come under ASD (which is how our psych is currently labeling DS OCD as rigid thoughts and compusive behaviour). DS is very controlling but thats how a lot of kids with ASD cope. The jury is still out for us but I'm not ruling it out.

Hello. My 7 yo DS has dxes of SPD, anxiety, and ASD with a PDA profile. The Elizabeth Newson centre, where his PDA was dxed, view PDA as part of the autism spectrum, so give a primary dx of ASD, and then within that consider whether the presentation is best described as Asperger's, autism or PDA.

My DS was similar to your dd as a baby: very high maintenance but no obvious developmental delays. From my reading, as PDA is still being researched and the criteria honed, it's becoming clear that not all the criteria on the list are fundamental to PDA or necessary for dx.

My ds' big areas of difficulty are sensory and anxiety. Anything that makes him feel insecure or not in control makes him anxious and can set off a meltdown - including demands, in a very wide sense (eg he can seem to feel under tremendous pressure from his own expectations of himself, if that makes sense, and the demands of life generally, not just direct demands from adults).

He is not ok at school much of the time, unfortunately (although I do realise this has done us a favour in some ways in that out concerns were taken more seriously by professionals with the school backing us up).

I appreciate your input everyone.

zzzzz Yes I do think that a need to control everything is probably age appropriate but it can be so oppressive that it can make life pretty miserable for me. Her sister doesn't seem to mind being a play slave but I do.

Also she can undermine my parenting of her sister as her younger sister will often listen to her over me. Also DD2 will say things like "Can I eat the strawberries now DD1?" I will say " of course you can DD2". She will say again "DD1 can I eat the strawberries?" and won't do so until DD1 says yes.
This doesn't happen every day but there are days where DD1 is like this about a lot of little things.

I think my DD's behaviour is definitely driven by anxiety as she is much more controlling after school. She is also very controlling about food and does have a lot of issues around food. I think the reasons PDA rang a few bells is that it seems to have anxiety at the root of much of the behaviours and I do think anxiety is the key here. I wouldn't say she had any ASD traits except perhaps the food issues (which I know can be an issue) and she has not yet developed much empathy. She's never been very cuddly but I think that's personality.

Hi, similar to Jack we went to the ENC and were given a dx of autism with PDA. He did however have a passive early life with delays. He has also found school so hard, to the point where he had 4 year at home, where he couldn't leave the house at all. His main problems are also sensory, anxiety and his literal intake on everything. PDA is anxiety driven. The best way to look at meltdowns etc is that of a panic attack. Due to severe anxiety and needing to be in control of it and themselves is why they are very controlling and demanding. They also avoid demands put on them and is quite often met with anxiety based meltdowns. Some kids with ASD or PDA can hold it together in school and breakdown at home. HTH x

Yes I'm being told unlikely to be on the spectrum but DD a child with very high anxiety caused by my anxiety. I think it's the behaviour that triggers my anxiety which then makes DD more anxious but those around me think I'm the one who needs treating and then it will sort itself out.

The more I hear your viewpoints the more I think probably not PDA but DD shares a lot of similar behaviours that might respond to same techniques.