Not sure what to do about tribunal?

[threetoone]

I've posted about this a couple of times recently, about asking our LA to liaise with another county for special secondary school for our dd. (Currently year five, statemented in ms, hfa).

We received a letter from our LA yesterday, saying they had heard back saying the out of county panel says dd doesn't meet criteria so cant move forward with the request. To say I'm gutted is an understatement.

The letter says we have the right to appeal to tribunal service, but who do take to tribunal? I am assuming it's the out of county LA? Even though I'm not resident in their area and DD goes to school in our county. Also how do I find out the criteria they use? And can I apply for tribunal date and send supporting paperwork at a later date? Can I find out what paperwork our LA sent to the out of county LA? Would it be worth getting an independent EP report?

Naively, I thought the out of county LA would look at us favourably.

Any ideas/experience gratefully received. TIA.

Personally I wouldnt trust your LA to be honest with you! They probably wont want to pay for your Dd to go out of county and if they are anything like my LA will do anything to put you off, sad but true in my LA.

I would defintely appeal. Can you ring the other LA and ask why they have refused your Dd?

Hope someone else comes along with advice.

Appeal and request for all the documentation sent to OOC plus their response. I'll bet you £50 the out of county peeps have never heard of you!

Thanks ineed and starlight. The thought did cross my mind but do you really think they would not send the paper work? starlight do you know, should I lodge the appeal against the ooc LA?

The appeal will be against your home LA I would think. I'm appealing at the moment - my school is out of county but its my home LA that I'm dragging to tribunal. I would think the LA in defending the case would have to ask the ooc LA to also attend.

I was in a similar position a couple of years ago with elder son. The other LA were quite open and honest with me and told me everything!! As it is, my son is ooc for his secondary placement and doing very nicely

Against your own LA. they are responsible for finding your child adequate and appropriate provision.

To win an appeal you have to demonstrate that the school you want can meet your child's needs but crucially none of the pro vision in the LA you are currently in, can.

In answer to your question. I've been here a LOT and I have no hesitation in telling you they did not submit the paperwork to the other LA.

I can only speak for my LA but I know someone in a similar situation and paper work has never been in the right place at the right time.

My LA have a particular fondness for passing the blame around too, they will blame anybody for messing up rather than taking responsibility themselves.
They also have a wierd understanding of what the "truth" is!!

Sorry you are having to deal with this

Thanks everyone, really appreciate your replies. I plan to see what the ooc peeps say and then request a copy of the information that was sent by my LA and any other correspondence that has been sent by them in relation to this and then lodge the appeal.

I'm annoyed because the letter from my LA saying ooc said no, didn't mention my right to appeal. I spoke to the Sendist helpline and they said they should mention this. The helpline also said about something else that they should have confirmed with me but they didn't and I can't remember what they said now. Grr..

bjk good to hear your son is doing well, I have seen your recent threads about your dd too. starlight and ineed sorry you've had difficulties with your LA too, its crap isn't it. Thanks the advice is soooo helpful and will keep me focused.

I'm confused here. Your original post says you received a letter from your LA saying you have a right of appeal, now you say it didn't say that?

Are you sure the "out of county panel" is not a panel convened by your LA to decide whether to fund an out of borough placement and, therefore, that the decision has been made by your LA and not the other LA. This is what happens in our LA. Have you had any direct contact with the school and what do they say about the criteria.

Hi oneineight as far as I can tell, going on the letters they have sent me, it was the ooc panel. I had spoken to the school, we have been there a couple of times and the ht said, dd met criteria and we would win at tribunal if they said no initially. I'm just worried we will run out of time. Its a fairly small intake.

I was away last week and had someone read the letter over the phone. I could have called our LA but I find them so objectionable. They are so limited in what they are prepared to tell you. They say she doesn't meet criteria, but won't elaborate. I had a look myself and the criterion I found from the county (which I think is probably from the sen cop) is school must be right age, ability, aptitude and sen and not be disruptive to other students.

I shall call ooc on Tuesday and see what they say, wish I had called last Thursday. I can only think my LA didn't send all the appropriate paperwork, I can only draw that
cconclusion right now. We really had set our sights on this school and just feel so upset right now. Thanks for posting, shall update after I make my calls on Tuesday.

I thought I'd update. I've made a various calls this week and found out dd didn't meet the criteria because her attainment levels are too high, we're talking one or two sub groups too high, so very disappointing. I've heard the County apply their criteria very strictly. We are going to appeal though and see where we get.

Hopefully someone could answer this, do the tribunal judges just look at whether an la have applied their rules correctly or can we put forward our emotive reasons for why we want her to attend this school?

Also there is an independent school which we would consider but it's about 30 miles away, we had it in reserve in our minds but the thing that concerns me is a. the travel time b. socially would dd be isolated because her peers could live miles the other side of the school. I know a few posters here have dc at ooc indi schools, has that been a concern? Thanks

but that's all it is criteria - its not the law - if you can show the school can meet her academic needs and she would have a suitable peer group then it could be named. obviously if they are only taking children at a lower academic level that could be an issue but as you've said its only a couple of subgroups and if my experience is anything to go by the NC levels are manipulated by schools anyway and may not actually be a true reflection of her ability.

you put your reasons to the tribunal as per the law not local authority 'policy' do you think the school could meet all of her needs? would she have a suitable peer group?

my son is in an ooc indie school - he has asd so not very sociable anyway so it hasn't really affected him but of course every child is different

'do the tribunal judges just look at whether an la have applied their rules correctly or can we put forward our emotive reasons for why we want her to attend this school?'

Yes, but they must be the rules of the law, not of some arbitrarily set LA policy. Academic achievement is really not a reason to refuse an OOC school.

The only way you can win this placement though is by proving that the LA proposed school is inadequate to meet her needs, in terms of being able to remove the barriers to her access to an education. Sometimes academic attainment is their proof that their education is successful so you will have to demonstrate why despite the academic levels that is not so.

Also there is an independent school which we would consider but it's about 30 miles away, we had it in reserve in our minds but the thing that concerns me is a. the travel time b. socially would dd be isolated because her peers could live miles the other side of the school. I know a few posters here have dc at ooc indi schools, has that been a concern?

DS's school is 40 miles away. Travel time is hard for both him and me BUT the huge huge benefits of being in the correct school far outweigh my discomfort and DS just goes to sleep in the car.

Tbh having no friends nearby has not been a problem at all but then DS was previously in a mainstream indie school and I've made sure to maintain friends from these days who he still sees quite regularly in school hols.

A school a long way away does have draw backs but the advantages far far outweigh this. Happy to talk further about this via PM

Thanks bjk, I'm finding it difficult to see things clearly this week. It's not a total surprise having to go to tribunal but has thrown me a bit for some reason.

My dd isn't terribly sociable either but I hope in a different environment she may develop some more meaningful friendships.

Hope all your issues you're dealing with are resolved soon.

it does at times feel completely overwhelming and we so want to get it right for our kids. since my son has been in the right school it has been so much difference to him - he travels an hour 15 mins each way - im having to do the journey myself one day a week in an evening as his twin sister is attending the sibling course the school is running so we have benefited from that side of things as well, my son went to the school at the end of the street and still then didn't have any friends but he is happy - he prefers adults.

facing a tribunal does feel scary but there are plenty of us on here who have come out the other side and honestly - its not that bad - its just the stuff you cant control that makes it feel so stressful - sadly it all becomes a bit of a game of chess which is ridiculous when we are dealing with children.

Sorry takes me ages to post on my phone. Thanks for the posts. starlight will bear that in mind, our LA haven't proposed a school yet, just said they were consulting with one of their schools at the time they sent our papers to the ooc and that school wouldn't be acceptable for various reasons.

towie gosh 40 miles is a long way, I'll p.m you tomorrow if that's ok, need to get some very bubbly kids to sleep.

bjk I think once I've formulated a plan I'll feel more together. I don't often post and have been a long time lurker but it's good to hear others experiences and the support on here is great.