Can child be chucked out of mainstream school ??

[TUTS1]

Hiya Everyone ,
My son is in a mainstream school reception which is an academy by choice they have top results in the area and are very proud of their Stats . My Son has GDD His language and speech and understanding are that of a 3 year old he is just 5 years old he also has a short attention span .Although he is behind his peers he is continually improving . I am in the process of getting him statemented ( The school is already giving him 3 hours one to one so its just for legal reasons I want this done )it looks like this is going to happen after a lot of help from all the professionals involved . The last meeting I had with the Senco I was told that in the future I may have to think about a special school she made this seem like it wasnt something to worry about for now . But again today they are doing a form a CR2 or something . They have mentioned special school in it ! I obviously will check special schools out if that is where my son needs to be but I don't feel he needs to be in one or that we should be thinking about it at this moment in time my child is really happy where he is he loves his school and all his little friends . He has only just turend 5 years old and he is improving every day obviously not as quickly as other children his age . Can they by law chuck a child out of main stream ? They have been known to not accept a few kids with much worse special needs in the past . i thought by law a child could go to any school ? I am starting to get the feeling we will get a statemented and before I know it he will no longer be welcome . Does anyone have any advice on law or what level of problems a child need to have to be given a place ?

In my experience, they certainly can. They won't do it quite like that, but there are many many ways they can make sure your child leaves if they really don't want them.

I speak as someone this has happened to this year. My five year old, diagnosed, statemented DS who everybody said would be fine in mainstream and who has no learning difficulties, only social ones, was bullied and pressured by teachers, the senco and the head until he had a breakdown and gave them a reason to permanently exclude him.

We have been forced down the route of a special school, and though I am very happy with the place we have and I know DS will thrive there, I am extremely unhappy that the choice was removed. From what I've learned from people on here and other local parents, this isn't unusual at all.

Schools can be very very underhanded. They will lie and obfuscate and trip you up at every turn if they feel it is to their advantage. Get an advocate if you can, someone who knows the system and what they can and can't do. It's very easy to get tripped up if you trust anyone in this process.

Oh dear, what a bitter old harridan I am! Very sorry xxx

I don't know about the legal side, but I do know that you cannot usually attend SS without a statement and that it is more expensive (for the LEA) to support a child in SS than a little bit of support in MS, so SS is not likely to be on the cards until it is obviously in the childs best interest. Once a statement is in place certain safeguards (against exclusion for instance)exist.

My son had GDD - (now at 14 Dxed Mod/SLD/ASD/ADHD) and at 5+ was assessed as having the understanding of a 2.4 year old. He stayed in MS until he was 7 ( all through infants) but had minimal support so did not stay happy for long. He transferred to SS for juniors (after a long fight to get him better support) as did quite a few children. That time in the local school means he knows the local children and they know him and when he was younger it was easy for him to join in (well sort of join in!) at the local park etc.
So no I don't think the school can push your child out!!

Sorry, have reread that and it sounds awful and bitter. I want to add that zzzzz is right about ss being more expensive and that LAs are often reluctant to say that is necessary.

I just wanted to tell you that even if they don't manage to convince you to go for an ss, then they can certainly move your child on if they don't want them.

Agree 3hrs support a week is not much - now 3hrs a day sounds better. Ds really sank with only 5hrs a week (the max back then without a statement)

Oh im sorry that a typo its 3 hours a day every morning . Thanks everyone . So realistically its unlikely he would be forced out at the moment . Perhaps im being pushed in that direction by Senco as they don't want him . Its all early days at moment . Obviously if my son needed to be in a special school I would accept that and have a look but he is such a happy little boy at the moment he is learning lots and feel he getting great help at the moment . Obviously if this changes I will have to rethink . Sahkoora - I understand how you feel as something not disimilar happened to my friend which is why im worried .My son is happy at the moment . Thanks everyone xxx

Please contact IPSEA for up to date legal advice www.ipsea.org.uk/

You can book a telephone appointment for a set time.

Knowing exactly where you stand is half the battle in fighting for your child's best interests.

As a general rule it's better to get specialist help as early as possible. It's also worth bearing in mind that many children who start at special schools don't stay there for their entire educational careers. Cost pressures mean they are encouraged to go back into mainstream once it's felt they can keep up their peers there. Special school places are sadly like gold dust so many children are left to rot in mainstream nowadays and that's a real shame.

Please don't be offended but could the school think a special school has more to offer your son ? I was offered a place in a unit in mainstream and a place at special school for my daughter . The special school had so much more to offer in terms of facilities and therapies she also now has a group of friends

While it's cheaper overall for your child to have a ta in mainstream school, it's not cheaper for that school while you're waiting on a statement to fund your son's place. It does happen, a child I know with down syndrome was pushed to leave primary school but he stayed and has gone to a mainstream secondary school. But I disagree with this personally as I feel he will be prime target for bullying and will be very vulnerable. He will also be less likely to make true friendships. (This is the same argument I have for dsd who has brain damage and asd to attend special scjool)
Saying that maybe the senco just knows from experience what he will need. Dsd is going to a main stream primary school at the moment in the year below her age but will be doing a split placement over some of next year at a special school and will move over gradually.

Op it is also worth mentioning that different special schools meet different needs and the one in your area might not even be suitable. There are 2 near by 1 is totally inappropriate for dsd as it is for severe ld while the other one is perfect for her. There's one in the town DPs parents live which wouldn't be suitable either. There are also ld units in some main stream schools which could be a compromise for you?

Thankyou bochead I will get in touch with them .I understand its better if he needs more help . At the moment I feel he is getting lots of help and support and I am happy with his progress my son loves his school and his friends so much I feel it would be a big upheaval for him . There was no talk of a special school when he started in September and he had gone to the attached nursery before this . My feeling is they will try and move him to another mainstream near his school which has a hearing impaired department . Nothing wrong with sons hearing but obviously there would be specialist speech and language staff there . I just feel we are all happy with help he is getting at this moment in time .

Thanks alita7 :) I need to check what the Senco is saying here . My feeling is if this is what is best for my son obviously I will move him . It would just be heartbreaking for him as he is so happy at the moment . Obviously this may change
as he gets older xx

I think if your son isn't hearing impaired you would be able to turn down a unit for that as unsuitable for your sons needs just as the local school for visual impairment wouldn't be expected to take my daughter who has autism

Hi autumnmums im not offended and I understand what your are saying I will chat to the Senco lady but really do feel my son is Happy at the moment and he is really doing well .His school has had a teacher from a special school give them instructions on ways to help Adam . I will play it by ear . It just seems it would be so sad for him to move when he is so happy :(

Yes I see what you mean, happy children should be left, unless they are seriously falling behind or their learning is so far behind it is disrupting other children or they are unable to participate in class even if their work is adjusted for them. The option of keeping him down a year should be explored before moving him, he might do just fine in the year below.

My dsd is very happy where she is, though she is completely oblivious to her social problems and loves everyone despite her teachers reporting that she is often excluded from play by others or teased, it goes over her head. However, she is big for her age (though mentally about 4 or 5 years younger) and being born at the beginning of the year she is nearly 2 years older than they children in her class as she is put back a year, and the children her age would be going to secondary school the september after next anyway, so it makes sense to move her as she would need to move soon anyway. Your son has just started so he should have a chance at mainstream school first!

Thankyou all for taking the time to answer its so nice to have mumsnet :) And such nice people to talk to . I feel I have a bit more knowledge I am going to start asking questions Thankyou xxx

Hiya, I moved my son from maintstream to special school in September and it has been fantastic. He was at an academy. In Foundation, he wasn't diagnosed or statemented and he was on a part time for most of the year. In Year 1 we got the diagnosis and statement. School started making noises about us moving him to special school early in year 1. It was almost like an overnight change, they went from one week saying he was doing well with support to calling me in and putting me under pressure to say I would move him (with hindsight, I think they wanted us to write it into the parental views). At that stage we were undecided and I contacted a charitable organisation who explained that it was our decision. I met with the school and explained this but the atmosphere with them was weird after that, though I was confident my son was well looked after, so I wasn't worried that they would take it out on him. When the draft statement was due, they called me in again and put further pressure on me (in a round about way) to move him. Unbeknown to them, I had already started looking at special schools and had identified the one I wanted him to attend. I was that fed up with the school by this point that I played my cards close to my chest. It may not have been the right thing to do but I felt that they were making my life uncomfortable and didn't feel inclined to hand it to them on a plate. When we received the draft statement, I named the special school we wanted and we got his place.

With hindsight of the whole situation, it was the right thing to do. He is very happy, he has little friends on his own wavelength and our life is much less stressful. Re the school he was at, I was happy with the way he was treated by staff, they were lovely but I think the powers that be had decided that they wanted him out and if I had resisted that, I think I would have felt very uncomfortable about keeping him there and we would not be as happy as we are now. Whilst it was very much the right thing to do for him, I will never really know how much funding issues played a part and I have to let things go so that I can maintain an okay relationship with them while my other child is still there. Also, we have had to go through our own, rather huge, learning curve as parents and we really didn't have a clue where we were headed at that time. Things are clearer now. Calmer and happier too. For me, I prefer not facing the pain of watching him out of his depth and so very different from his peers, and the uncomfortable relationship with the other parents who will never know what this feels like. I feel very lucky now to have my special boy in my life and grateful for the support and expertise he gets. Sorry this has been an epic post, I hope it helps in some way :-)

ps IPSEA are the organisation I contacted too. They are fab. Make sure you name drop to the school. You may be surprised how much nicer they are to you once you do ;-)

Hi

Legally, a mainstream school cannot push your son out of the school. But they can voice out their opinions and suggest a SS for your DS.

At first, I was like no way my DS is going into a special school...until I found out about the ICAN meath school went to visit the school and I just loved it!

The earlier the intensive help, the better.

The other charity that may be helpful; to you is SOSSEN! I had some legal from them when in a similar situation - but it was many years ago.

Just mentioning that it isn't really cheaper for LAs to support kids in M/s. Whilst the actual cost may be less, the LA has already budgeted and paid for all the SS places beforehand, whilst every child with support in m/s is an extra cost. Of course support in m/s is cheaper than indie SS, by a long long way.

Onestepforwardtwostepsback I will remember your story for the future I think I will look at the options . The fact is my son is improving at school . I will call IPSEA and find out all the facts . Thankyou everyone xxx

Left reply on your other thread

One step forward made a very important point- I think having real friends on your wavelength is so important and this what I want for DSD, at the moment we can't tell exactly how she is socially as she is oblivious to most of the problems reported by school but we know she plays alone alot (which isn't normal for her in other environments) and is sometimes excluded by others or laughed at. She doesn't mention this to us, and I think when she is laughed at she thinks it's a joke as we do tease eachother a lot in our family. These problems are emerging as she and the children get older and the mental age gap between them and her increases. I think in the next couple of years for her to have real friends, special school, where the children will be more like her, will be much better. However she has thrived in main stream school up until now- so if your son has friends he enjoys playing with and is happy then as I said previously as long as his academic problems aren't massive, then he should be continuing to be challenged and pushed by being in a mainstream school because at this point you don't know how he will turn out- at 12 he might be totally inappropriate for special school or he might be struggling massively and not be connecting with his peers and be being bullied- you don't know so at this point he should stay where he is happy.

Thanks alita7 :) At the moment he is socially doing very well he has a best friend and gets lots of invites to parties and to peoples houses to play etc its all really good in that sense. But he is only in reception at the moment I am aware this could change year one is approaching very quickly . The fact is he is improving and things are starting to click obviously not quick enough though . I am going to look at my options for the future . The fact is its been mentioned twice in passing I wouldnt be surprised after he gets his statement which its looking pretty likely he will will have in Jun . They may then start pushing this point xx