help! LA want a meeting with us - refusal to assess appeal

[bjkmummy]

response by the LA due to tribunal next Thursday. LA have yet to take my daughters views. daughter has been made to re do some work for some mystery person and her work copied for us to find out its for the SEN officer.

Today we received a phone call from the SEN officer inviting us to a meeting at the school with her and the head teacher on weds.

Now I know this meeting will be to 'sound' us out - been here before so I am prepared for that and am not going to give anything away. I am purely attending so it shows that I have co operated fully and have been reasonable. I have emailed and asked what the meeting is about - they are sending me a letter apparently.

I know that the meeting will be an ambush to try and persuade us that she is making lots of good progress.

omg - I have just had the head of SEN at my front door and handed me a bundle of paperwork I had asked for including the sen panel meeting minutes!

anyway now after quickly going through the paperwork I have also seen what the school have wrote! they have put her 3 and half years behind, agree she is causing them concern etc.

anuway back to the meeting - how do I play it ? ive lost my train of thought now as the SEN boss at my door totally freaked me out!

When I complained about lack of intervention for ds I got this reply;

'But you've had 6 meetings this year. That is a LOT of professional time and more than most people get!'

Our LA have a senior EP who has never met DS1 on their list of witnesses, bjk. Funny how they didn't name the actual EP they had assess him, last year. Might be because her report is supportive of our case.

I'm surprised you could keep a straight face, starlight.

If they want to "discuss her SEN needs" then you're perfectly justified in asking for an agenda so you can know best in advance how to help them to help her. You're justfified, anyway, of course.

A senior EP what had never met ds and never set foot in his school appeared as a tribunal witness. She said he was progressing well and her comments found their way into the judges decision against us.

I am baffled about why she is listed. The Autism advisory person they also have has met him numerous times and is also an EP, in a former life, anyhow.

Well I've had the sen officer on the phone already this morning. God, she is being too nice to me and pleasant! The meeting is 90 mins and she mentioned that if that not enough time then we can always have another meeting! The meeting is for us all sit round together and discuss what is in place for my daughter - well that will take 10 minutes then! My line in the sand has been drawn, we will go and listen, accept the help they offer but she needs to be assessed and unless ultimately that is what they are offering then I will see them at tribunal.

Daughter wrote her views last night using the LA form which was used when my son gave his views last year. Sen officer has said school can take her views, I'm glad I got her to do them as there are things she has wrote which I don't think she would say to a teacher and she wouldn't want to upset her teacher or hurt her teachers feelings. Her writing in it is shocking and I've also done a second set where I have rewrote it so you can understand it. I will hand her views over at the meeting.

Re the EP at my sons tribunal they did call the LA EP who hadn't seen my son for a year - the tribunal picked up and commented on that point.......

DS2's school is also across the LA border. I have also had a recent refusal and have appealed. I had a 'level 2 refusal' - meeting with LA and senco/head prior to appeal.

The LA did come to 'blast' the school as a lot of schools actually work with the notion that new SEN/AEN funding arrangements can be interpreted to mean that only DC with a statement get the full £6K, then DC with recognised additional needs with top-up get £6K, then DC with recognised AEN but no top-up get up to 6K, then DC at SA/SA+ who may have AEN that are unrecognised or minimised get up to 2.5K which in practice is shared by all the DC on SA/SA+. My LA got the head to agree in writing to provide support equating to £6K. Remember that until tribunal when the home LA is named at the appellant, both the LA and you have shared interests. Might be ignored but that is evidence that mainstream staff don't do what they say they are going to do and lack experience and expertise. In DS2's case, the meeting was at the start of term and nothing has materialised as yet.

I am still appealing but I would rather go to tribunal with the secure knowledge that the school cannot do more rather than crap 'provision' on his IEP. The school had exaggerated the support by listing 5 hours teacher planning per week and by counting the times when the class routinely split into groups as 'small group literacy intervention, 20 mins, 5 times per week' and had done the same for maths. Naughty, naughty. LA made them amend it to only include intervention that was additional to and different from normal teaching.

DS2 might not actually be receiving any additional support but at least the IEP has been much tightened up by LA intervention ready for tribunal (with enough time prior to hearing for the additional support to be shown to be ineffective - I know it will be ineffective because the school aren't actually doing it in real life even though the written record submitted to tribunal suggests that they are).

BJK, they do try to do silly things, like in ds's case the LA sought advice from a SALT that was part of the ASD dxing team, as part of the SA process. Ds is almost 10, the last time this SALT saw him he was 5. However LA concluded it was 'up to date' as they had written to him recently requesting his advice. The fact that he hadn't seen ds for 5 years, how on earth could he give advice on ds's current needs! (would have been my argument)

LA state that advice over a year is 'out of date'. Its not just the LA who can rely on that, particularly if you have a more up to date report.

after the phone call today there feels like there has been a shift - previously it was the LA case that school had highlighted no issues, that shes making progress, no reason at all for any concerns whatsoever - now its about us all sitting together and making sure she gets everything she needs - its a miracle how its shifted in the a matter of days but I know the game and yes I will accept any help but at her current rate of progress she will be thrown to the wolves at secondary and as someone I think star said in 18 months time she will be just aname and we will be picking up the pieces at secondary - im not 100% confident we can win but at this stage I feel we have absolutely nothing to lose by going to tribunal - even if we lose we will hopefully secured some extra help for her and as parents I know we did everything we could to get her help, if the system seems determined to fail her then the system failed not us and we will move on and make sure she does get the necessary help she needs as her parents.

I don't think a concede is on the cards although I think they will try and get her to agree to lots tomorrow and through support at us but we will continue on to tribunal

this is the thing claw - the LA have no reports on her at all - all we have is our EP report which dx moderate dyslexia on a lot of areas she is on the 2nd centile - her working memory is 4th centile, she is academically average but then is substantially under performing so she needs an assessment to see whats going on. the reality is that her dyslexia means normal teaching isn't helping her, she needs much more specialist teaching and the only way we will know that is if they assess her so round in circles we go.

we have a private OT coming in on 17th feb - school were playing games about that but have now agreed they can come in, not sure if they know she is a private OT so no doubt that is something that I may have to own up to tomorrow - school were meant ot refer her to he NHS OT but haven't but they don't know I know they didn't so there is so much going on with her - we are the ones paying for her dyslexia teaching - school LA have dyslexia teachers , school could call them in but they wont due to cost, school refused to get the EP in so its the schools/LA fault that they have no reports to throw back at us. my LA are just ignoring the EP report but my LA know after the last appeal that a tribunal will accept my report without question so will they want to go to tribunal with nothing? also I can see the school absolutely resisting to attend a tribunal, school is not in their LA and will be an academy by the time of the tribunal so the LA as it stands have nothing but a child who is 3 - 4 years behind and no assessment

though im guessing if they agree to extra dyslexia teaching that means that she needs help over and above what a school would normally be expected to fund out of their budget which equals a need for an assessment

BJK, I would try not to worry about what they will/will not do. They might well back down before Tribunal. Try to forget they even exist for now.

Just focus on what you need to do.

1. advice from a number of different professionals is needed to fully understand your child’s difficulties. The fact they have no reports goes in your favour.

1. you need to make the case that your child’s needs probably cannot be met without a statement of special educational needs.

1. the school has given your child all the help that could be expected but he or she has not made enough progress. (try not to slag school off too much, they haven't meet needs as your childs needs are too complex and they need the guidance of a statement)

That's all you have to prove to a Tribunal, forget about the LA, don't get side tracked.

At the meeting don't agree to anything, just say thank you, I need to time digest and will get back to you.

Wot claw said.

You don't have to own up to anything, if they ask, yes you have been forced to get an independent OT to assess, as they have refused assessment and are forcing you to go to Tribunal!

"school were meant to refer her to he NHS OT but haven't but they don't know I know they didn't"

Ds's school offered to refer to OT, I got the name and made the referral myself, knowing full well the referral would be declined (after speaking with the NHS OT on the phone) I just needed them to decline the referral in writing, which they did. Which showed that ds needed a statement to access OT!

I hope they offered to refer in writing or you followed it up in writing, as its proof that your child needs OT input!

yikes! now had PP on the phone - anyway she says that I don't have enough evidence that my daughter doesn't meet the LA stupid criteria ie shes not 6 years behind and on that basis she doesn't meet the threshold for a statement. she thinks the meeting tomorrow will be the LA putting pressure on the school to provide 15 hours of support - currently school state they give 7 hours - though shes in a class of 10 and with 2 teaching staff so shes getting pretty go adult/child ratio.#

anyway listened to what PP had to side and stored and ignored - couldnt give 2 stuffs about the LA criteria/policy - its the law im concerned about and neither of my 2 sons would meet their stupid criteria but both have statements!

never known my phone to be so busy

re the OT - I asked them to do the referral due to my concerns not theirs. in my refusal letter school are quoted by LA as saying they have no concerns re dyspraxia and yet in all the paperwork ive seen that the LA sent yesterday there is no mention of the school directly saying this although strangely there is no file note either on the school file where I asked for the referral to be done

OMG. Take your phone off the hook..... And don't answer the door.

Go and have a bubble bath

also got a letter tonight from the school - only handed my letter in yesterday as per the ipsea refusal to assess pack asking what the sen budget for the school is - they have refused to answer the question as the school is so small? also wont tell me how many are on school action/plus etc for same reason . they then list a load of dyslexia things they do apparently and then end it by saying what fantastic progress she is making! my daughter has told me that today she has been tested on one of her iep targets which is to spell 100 HFA words so no doubt those results are going to forced upon us yesterday although she said she struggle with some of the words so will wait and see what they say but we know they are going to 'bump' her up as everything is going to be bumped up

Doesn't really matter who raised the concerns, the fact is they agreed to refer, so they agreed that your child needs OT input.

Do you not have anything in writing? even just a note from you thanking them for agreeing to refer for example or a note of the verbal conversation you made?

PP said similar to me, Ds wouldn't get a statement, statements are going to become a thing of the past and more funding given to schools, blah, blah, blah! I need to be 'realistic' and stop asking for 'Rolls Royce' provision!

Do a 'v' sign while talking to her on the phone

claw - you know me to well - that's exactly what I was doing :-) no theres nothing written down as it was a phone call only - the teacher that evening as it was her xmas nativity was gushing at my husband how amazing the school nurse was who the referral would go through blah blah blah then she did nothing! im hoping the school file might have said something but I have my doubts as from the file notes ive seen so far things have been added on afterwards and theres no record of the conversation. in the same conversation I told her I was applying for a statement and she responded by saying that the school LA wouldn't even consider it as she wasn't far enough behind but understood why I was doing it as my daughter would get access to the specialist dyslexia teaching which she clearly needed - sigh..... so my plan is to bring up this conversation in the meeting and then minute it

Haha! good for you.

I used to record all my verbal conversations and follow it up in writing, if anything was agreed etc. With hindsight its easy to say you should have now. However nothing stopping you from making a record of the conversation now, if you remember the date, who was there and what was said!

I can indeed remember it all as it was the day my GP phoned me so got the date in my book. you just don't think do you in hindsight to do these things but my intention now is to write 'file notes' of all of these conversations ive had over the last few months and even from the beginning. ive actually spoken to the school very little so easy to put it all together - I guess I will see how the land really lays if the senco starts denying conversations ever took place. however the bits of the school file I have seen is littered with comments from her saying how concerned she is about my daughter but we all know tomorrow the miracle is coming and shes going to be astounded by her progress - got that warning shot in the letter today where they wont reveal the school sen budget.