Am I seeing something that isn't there? All advice/opinion gratefully received.

[RandallFloyd]

Ok, DS is 2.6. He's lovely, lively, funny, is average at talking and sleeps well. He was a little bit late at sitting/crawling/walking but all within 'normal'.

I just have a gut feeling that I can't shake. I've had it since around 12 months but it's really hard to describe why without sounding like your average PFB'er. (Which I freely admit I am!) I've looked at the mchat test but it's difficult to put the way he is into yes/no tick boxes iyswim.

He doesn't like people; adults or children makes no difference. He finds himself a safe place, usually behind a sofa or in a corner, and watches. Then comes out slowly when he's ready. He's ok once he gets to know them but even after a couple of hours I can't leave the room even for a minute. He's fine with close family though.

He's brilliant at independent play, happily amuses himself for most of the day. He plays 'pretend' but it's acting out scenes from cartoons he's watched rather than abstract imagination.

His favourite toys are his Alphablocks and his numbers. He will play with other things but the letters/numbers are always involved. In all honesty I don't think he'd care if I got rid of everything else. He spends his time lining things up and arranging them in order.

He spells out short words but these are ones he's seen on Alphablocks episodes so not 'spelling' as such. Usually 3, 4 or 5 letters but he also spells out 'alphablocks' and 'alphabet'. He has some flash cards and can sound out most 3 and 4 letter words. Once he's laid his things out he gets very upset if you move them or if they fall over. Very upset.

He flaps his hands when he's excited. This can be for any reason, a song, a cartoon, reading a story or just whilst he's playing.

Bloody hell, that's already an essay there's more, but if anyone can be arsed getting through that lot for now I'd be more than grateful!

Thank you Judo, that's a very kind thing to say.

You mustn't feel ashamed though, with MN I very much doubt I would be doing things so soon. It's so easy to rationalise it all isn't it. Every little quirk they have there'll be someone who says 'so and so used to do that' or 'it's just a phase' or 'they'll grow out of it' or my favourite 'well you never let him out of your sight, what do you expect'.

Most of the time they mean well, but for some reason as soon as you make even the slightest hint towards your child being 'different' in any way, people seem to feel a need to shout you down and tell you you're overreacting. It's not something I understand tbh but it's awfully common!

Good luck to you too

*without MN.

Judo, in our case if ds2 didn't have a speech delay I don't know whether we would have spotted things. Ds1 is very quirky, he's highly intelligent and has emotional and social awareness beyond his years so we've always had the strange kid thing from other people. If ds2 was speaking there is a lot we would have overlooked because we weren't aware. I didn't know child development was as uniform as it is or pointing so important, or that pretend play really should include others, do so many things that only showed up once I started searching about his speech difficulties.

Dh is almost certainly on the spectrum so we've had honest discussions recently about it due to ds2 and just tonight I said I find it strange that there's this thing called autism that also overlaps with dh, because he's just dh! He says that's cos this is home and family and I don't see him, for instance, at work. There are things I remember when we first got together like how he never made eye contact with people, but just put it down to shyness and other stuff. My family knows he's a bit weird, but he's just him and they love him how he is, they've never thought about a label.

I guess what I'm saying is that in hindsight it can be obvious, but living day to day our family is just our family.

We could all invoke Captain Hindsight couldn't we! I should have done something 12 months ago but I kept telling myself I was being paranoid and that all children are different. I convinced myself that because he can walk and talk he was obviously fine.

He didn't start pointing at things until about 6 months ago, I had no idea he should have been doing that by 1yo. I also thought what he was doing was imaginary play until I read up on it.

I only know what 'echolaic' speech is because I googled it after SomewhatSilly mentioned it upthread. It's exactly what DS does all the time. I had no idea it was even a thing never mind that it was a symptom of Autism.

My DS is now 30mo so is at the maximum age for the mchat to be relevant, he still scored a 6/7. If I'd done it at 16mo he'd have failed almost every question. If I'd listened to my gut then I wouldn't be doing it so close to him starting nursery.

XDH says he agrees there's a problem but he still minimises every bloody thing I say. All he does is rationalise all the symptoms he does show and look for all the signs he doesn't show. It's like he's desperately searching for evidence that he doesn't have it rather than looking at all the information impartially. It's exhausting.

It's ridiculous isn't it. Why do we ignore ourselves? Why is it so natural to brush our feelings aside? Why do we listen to other people over our own instincts?

I know my child had autism. It's not just a gut feeling, it's not a hunch, it's not an idea, I know it. I've known it for a long time and the more I research the more proof I am finding. It's all right there in black & white.

Yet, if it wasn't for MN I'd still be brushing it off and telling myself he'll grow out of it, that everyone worries about these things, it's just part of being a parent. I'm so angry with myself.

I really can't thank you all enough though. Just having someone there to actually listen is such a relief. People who are completely impartial but hear what I'm saying and give their honest opinion. Everyone in RL just wants to tell me that he's fine. I've learnt so much in the last few days. You are all wonderful

Randall, it is natural to do that. We have all done it too.

My dd was so severe when she was little that it was blindingly obvious from around 9 months of age that something was up. ANd everything I read pointed to autism.

I had the usual people around me saying the same things and there was a part of me that wante dto believe them too. I wanted everything to come right. Of course I did. Because NOT having SN is far easier (for the individual and for the family) than having them.

I fought for 2 years to get dd1 diagnosed. ANd in the system, and seen by SALT, OT etc.

And still I walked out of the appointment where (after 2 years and a LOT of appointments, and gradual dawnings, and work on our part etc) someone finally said the words 'consistent with a diagnosis of ASD' and cried.

I don't do crying in public, and I walked down the road, with a grumpy dd1 and a hungry dd2 in the buggy, sobbing. BEcause instead of someone telling me I was imagining it all, the person who could take all my worries away and who I could believe if they told me it would come right, instead toldme what I had known all along. My last chance gone. I had known for years (and dd1 was only a bit older than your ds now), yet still I hioped against hope that I was wrong, and it was just my crappy parenting.

Don't be angry with yourself. You are doing a wondeful job. You have found out so much, and you aren't ignoring any possibilities. You are getting ready to hit the road running when it comes to preschool - you already know what bits your ds will struggle with, and you have time to prepare (him and you and the preschool). pre-school isn't compulsory away - if you think your ds will struggle too much then skip it (unless you need him to go for work reasons). You have lots of time before compulsory schooling kicks in. Don't waste time and enery on guilt. It's really not worth it.

Oh Christ yes, I keep putting my instincts away in a box because I really, really fucking want to be wrong.

I'm not wrong, though :(

I do have to keep reminding myself that it's not compulsory NewBlue. It feels like a sort of catch-22 though. If I do send him I know he's going to find it really upsetting and I honestly don't know if I'll ever be able to leave him, but if I don't send him I won't know just how far behind his peers he actually is iyswim.

I'm kicking myself for leaving it so late. If I'd done something before we would be able to make a proper plan, the way it is now it's going to be all last minute and far more stressful all round.

What you've done for your DD is inspirational. Especially when you had other children to look after too. I can only hope I will be as strong for my DS.

Oh SomewhaySilly, I just want to give you a big hug.
(I'll probably be excommunicated one )

*now not one. Dyac!

Well then I'll join you in excommunication-land by accepting :). Thank you.

I have to say that preschool has been great for DS1. He eats lunch with his peers and is able to follow some of the routine stuff, which is very positive, I think. There always seems to be someone on hand to look at book with him when he doesn't want to join in most of the time and the preschool staff have a lot of experience with kids going through the assessment process/with diagnoses.

I chose it only after meeting with the SENCO and laying out my concerns. My lurking on the MNSN boards really helped the conversation as I was able to use the common language professionals use to discuss developmental concerns.

After only a couple of weeks observation she came back agreeing with all of them and saying they were putting through an urgent SL referral. That made me cry, sure, because what I wanted was for them to tell me I was neurotic and imagining things! But it's positive as well, because the system as a whole takes the concerns of other professionals more seriously than of parents alone.

Randall, you will be strong for your ds. You already are being - you are standing up to people who are choosing not to see any developmental issues. You are facing up to the potential of developmental issues yourself.

All any of us can do is take it day by day. If I had known, 8 years ago what I know now about dd1 and her ASD I am not sure I would have had anymore children. But luckily for dd2 (and now ds) I didn't. Dd1 was 17 months old when I got pregnant with dd2 - funnily enough just after I had got my hv and gp onside with referring dd1 on - maybe I had faith tey would tell me I was neurotic .

I totally understand your dilemma re: pre-school. It is all such a minefield and all any of is can do is our best, at times in an imperfect setup. You really are doing brilliantly, and you do have enough time to sort out a plan for September. It may not have an official stamp on it, but keep reading here, and asking questions - there isn't much that we (collectively on the boards) haven't experienced.

NewBlue, you're so kind. It's like having my own private cheerleader seriously though! you've given me so much confidence.

That pre-school sounds fab Somewhat, is it a council run one or private? The only ones here are the ones within the schools which I think makes them seem so much bigger and more intimidating.

I've been trying to pic up the different terms because I find it hard to put the way he is into words. Like the Echolalia thing. (Although I'm pretty sure I'm not pronouncing it right). It wouldn't have occurred to me to mention that but now, not only do I know that it's significant, I know the name for it too.

Now I've got til March 12th to learn the rest!

Well, we attempted soft play again today.
Went with my sister and 5yo niece, who DS worships, in the hope that he would follow her in to the main play area. Or at the very least want to watch what she was doing.

It was heartbreaking.

He was absolutely hysterical before we even got through the gate. (It didn't help that the girl on the desk tried to put a wrist band on him.) He was utterly terrified. It wasn't even particularly busy, we went to one across the border because we knew they weren't on half term there.

I carried him the whole time and took it very, very slowly but it didn't help at all. I tried taking him in to a very quiet bit just with me and my sister but he screamed his head off. I tried taking one step in so he could wave to my niece, he physically grabbed one of the posts to stop me.

We ended up back in the baby section.

sorry it was so hard.

Polter is right though, you don't have to go. dd1 was alwaays happiest outdoors too at that age - it really calmed her down.

now, she wants to go to softplay . she's 9, and can manage the baby sized stuff by herself, but of course can't go in that section

it's worse if I take dd2 as well, as then she zooms off with dd1 saying 'let's go, dd1', dd follows, and then 5 minutes later dd2 appears saying 'dd1 is stuck/scared/about to fall off somewhere' and I have to climb in and rescue her

I will never forget her being stuck at the top (talking about 4 stories) of the climbing frame at cadburyworld. dh let them in unsupervised (wtf was he thinking?!) while I had popped into a shop. I climbed as high as I could (the levels got bizarrely closer together the higher you got), and had to shout to dd1 to come down to me,. she was stck in a corner with her hands in her ears ignoring me. it was bedlam.

if I had my way we'd never set foot in on again (playground OR softplay), but dh is a twit who falls for the pleas everytime...

That sounds like a nightmare I'm claustrophobic so I'd be bollock all use in that situation. I'd probably be joining her with my hands over my ears!

Tbh it was more of an experiment than anything else. I needed to see what he could manage iykwim. I knew he'd be stressed and I was prepared for it to take a long time but the way he reacted surprised even me. My sister was really shocked by it.

It's stepped up my resolve a bit too though. There just isn't any way he's going to cope with pre-school so I'm really going to need to fight his corner for him. I have to get the doctors to take me seriously. I can't let them fob me off with 'wait and see'. He needs help and he needs it now.

Blimey, time flies doesn't it! Our GP appointment is this Wednesday, it seems to have come round awfully quickly and I don't feel prepared at all.

I've been reading up on all the sites you all directed me to and have made notes of all the things DS does which I think are relevant, and I've recorded him playing a few times.

The thing is I don't know what to actually say to the GP. Do I just ask for a referral, if so, what am I asking for a referral to/for? Do I just say I think he's showing multiple signs of ASD or do I say I'm worried about his behavior and ask for her opinion?

I think I'm probably just having a last minute panic but I don't want to arse it up. I don't know how to make sure she takes me seriously. To me it's undeniable, the list of traits DS has has just got longer and longer the more I read up about it, but she won't see them because all he'll do when we're there is sit on my knee and look cute!

I'm worried she's going to think I'm another 'overbearing mother' who's wasting her time. How do I appear confident and assertive without sounding arsey? And more importantly how do I say the actual words without dissolving into a snivelling mess?

That's a good idea, I've just been noting things on my iPad/phone to jog my memory so will get them down on paper.

I'm probably just flapping because it all seems so real all of a sudden. I'm ok at the theory bit, I've done lots of research and have really looked at his behaviours to make sure I'm being objective, but actually 'doing' something suddenly seems very scary.

Your DS is very lucky to have such a switched on mum.

I was the complete opposite and totally ignored all the very obvious, with hindsight indications DS was on the spectrum.

It was his nursery in the end who referred him to numerous places after his first morning. Even then I was the president of Denial Land. I scoffed to friends who knew DS that Nursery were jumping to the wrong conclusion. They all said, "Well, actually..."

I even posted on mumsnet to get confirmation Nursery were delusional just because DS flapped his hands, refused eye contact, lined up toys, rolled on the carpet with his hands over his ears and eyes shut when people invaded his space, and so on that was no indication he's on the spectrum. Mumsnet concensus was we can't diagnose but these books might be helpful.

If I hadn't been so stubbornly in denial DS would have got help earlier.

Looking back all the signs DS has ASD were there from an early age. I just chose to ignore them. I even boasted when he was two that he was so easy to cope with because he didn't pester!

My DS got a place in an SN Nursery which was great for his communication and socialisation. He got the SN placement without a diagnosis so it might be worth investigating if that's an option available where you live. At the time I was guilty about an NT child taking a place from someone with SN.

Getting a referral now will be brilliant for your DS. If our experience was typical the whole process takes a long time so by starting now he will have support in place for formal education.

Good luck for Wednesday. I hope all goes well.

Thank you. That's really nice of you to say, I do fear I'm coming across as more 'together' than I actually am. DS has been showing signs since he was about 12mo but I very much enjoyed my stay in your lovely kingdom of denial!

I think the worst part for me is that it's such a massive leap into the unknown. I have no idea what will happen next. I don't know the slightest thing about having a child with sen. I barely know anything about kids at all. The whole parenting thing has been a rather seat-of-your-pants affair so far. We've just sort of bumbled along, but it's been easy because it was just us in our little bubble.

I've never found him challenging in the slightest but then he's the only child I have. I've never had a child who didn't take 45 minutes to get into a paddling pool.

I just wish I knew what was coming so I could prepare myself a bit.