CAMHS' experiences

[inappropriatelyemployed]

Hi all,

I wondered if people had experiences of CAMHS they would be prepared to share (anonymously).

A Commons Select Committee is doing a report on CAMHS - see here and we would like to submit some evidence.

A few of us have formed an organisation called the Educational Rights Alliance (see here). This has kept me really busy so I haven't been posting as much of late.

We wanted to try and use our experiences where we can to lobby for positive changes so please do contact me on [email protected] if you want to share anything. Or if you want to get involved.

Your anonymity is absolutely guaranteed.

Don't know. We never got past 'triage'
Because we'd done the parenting course already, whilst waiting. And ASD is an educational issue, not a medical matter, you see. Oddly enough, the LA were simultaneously certain that ASD is medical, not educational

Caamhs blamed me for my son's issues stating I had "anger issues" and panic attacks so I didn't go out the house. They spelt names wrong and got ages wrong. Just for clarification I was working 4 days a week at the time!!

After 5 years we were eventually given the diagnosis of ASD after bouncing through various healthcare systems.

We have recently asked for a re-referral as he has become violent, absconds and threatens suicide and is basically getting out of control. Apparently they don't deal with this so refused to see us.......

Thanks guys. These comments are really helpful!

For balance I should add that we have been impressed with ds2's psychiatrist (when we finally got to her one year after referral).

-Was happy to see me initially in the absence of ds2 when we felt it was distressing to him to attend the appointments
-She sends us a report after every appointment - usually within 48 hours.

• She has made many phone calls on our behalf - school, SEN team and social services and does this within a day or so of being requested.
• Calls back promptly if we ring her to ask questions
• She adopted a very careful attitude towards medication for anxiety. Discussed the options & gave us the pro's and con's of each drug. Gave her recommendation but put no pressure on us to decide there and then. Started ds2 on a very low dose to test for intolerance/side effects. Monitored very carefully. Accepted our parental view when we felt side-effects outweighed benefits.

-Was prepared to come to ds2's annual review (didn't make it because SS changed the date at short notice) .

• Was prepared to put in writing recommendation for specialised educational setting.

The rest of them were pretty rubbish though especially the gate-keeping mental health nurse who kept telling us "I am very concerned..." and then doing nothing.

We were referred by the GP to CAMHS for our 7 years old son (after 6 years of going back to GP/HV for DS behaviour. CAMHS bounced us back to the community paediatrician. They would not consider seeing us unless they consulted the school first. However DS was brilliant at school and all we wanted was to consult a psychologist. As a trained teacher myself I could not see how a teacher was trained to provide any information on my child's behaviour at home. The paediatrician was more than useless and we got nowhere at all. DS mental health was deteriorating rapidly. Luckily for us we could afford to consult a private psychologist and we were very fortunate to have one recommended to us. He was diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome and we haven't looked back..at the moment he is happy. It would appear that CAMHS is completely ignoring the fact that ASD can be situational.Teachers can not report what they can't see and are not trained to detect ASD.

Situational ASD? What is that?

I don't think it is an official term! the diagnosis is ASD. Basically people who have ASD might not show the symptoms in all setting.Yes it is pervasive which means that it affected the person in all different aspect of life but they might not show symptoms in all settings. e.g they can cope at school (e.g using their intellect) but are then exhausted from it... when they get home they then relax and this is where you will see meltdowns, anxiety, outburst of rage…. hence the term situational (some professionals use it). The fact that the symptoms occur in more than one setting isn't a criteria for the diagnosis of ASD..the triad of impairment is.

Thanks. Information - positive and negative welcomed.

Mollyweasley - I understand what you mean and I think this can be quite common with Asperger's. Kids learn how to keep their head down and are often silent or disengaged in school. To some schools, this looks like 'good' behaviour.

This is very much my son and it is what worries me about AAA's campaign about access to specialist teaching services. In a school with poor ASC awareness, he was effectively mute. When the 'specialist teaching services' came in they tried to suggest it was because he had learnt to 'play up' at home. They seemed to have no idea about how common it is for children with AS to present differently across settings and were only concerned in supporting the school in dealing with so-called 'bad' behaviors which teachers could see. A silent child was of no concern to them.

We were fortunate in getting (after a fight) a consultant psychiatrist at CAMHS during the diagnostic process who was brutally honest in her opinion about DS's needs and how he was being failed. She demanded a statutory assessment for him.

But I was told by the community paediatrician that this was 'very naughty' of her and that the psychiatrist had stepped right outside her 'remit' to do so.

Referral in April, initial assessment in July, chased up what was happening in Sept and a letter arrived2 days later, seen in oct, then in dec when they tried to close dd case and I realised that they were going off a (5year) old referral and I got to go through problems all over again.
Reassessed in Feb (worker #3)told yes there's a problem but we can't help and we shouldn't have been referred to them in the first place.
I work with Camhs and know the system...

so what DO Camhs ACTUALLY do??? no-one seems to be able to get near them with their child so how can they justify the "service" they give?? Or indeed their actual employment??

I'm a CAMHS practitioner and it saddens me to see so many people unhappy with the service they have received from CAMHS.
This does not justify lack of support to children and families in crisis at all, but perhaps my experiences as a practitioner can try to put a little context to it.

I am in a CAMHS service that has had funding cuts year upon year for the last five years. We are down in staff numbers by around 40% with posts becoming frozen as people leave and the health trust refusing to recruit into them.
At the same time we have seen referrals into the service more than double in the last two years due to a seeming increase in mental health problems in children and young people and the impact of other services closing completely.

We are swamped with referrals which is why unfortunately we have a waiting list for the 'less urgent' ones. I put that in brackets because I know ALL children's mental health difficulties are urgent, but we have to prioritise our over-stretched resources to the children in crisis - and by that I mean acutely unwell - suicidal, psychotic, not functioning at all and severely at risk. More than 50% of our work has become crisis response and management. We don't have a separate crisis team, we do it all including 24/7 on-call work. Yesterday I worked 15 hours straight - my day's work then an evening spent doing emergency on call work in A&E. I am not exaggerating. I went to work yesterday at 9am and got home at around 2 am. I was supposed to be home around 6pm. This is not unusual.

Add to that the thousands of referrals we receive that do not meet CAMHS criteria (CAMHS being a service for enduring or complex mental health difficulties) and the lack of other more suitable services to signpost families to then there are a lot of frustrated families not able to get help for their difficulties.

The last comment by Dragging was particularly saddening. I and my colleagues work extremely hard to provide the best service that we can under the most morale draining and challenging circumstances.
I personally have a caseload of 55 when I should have a caseload of around 25....how can I provide the best service in the light of that? All my colleagues carry similar caseloads.

None of the above is to excuse poor practice and lack of support when it is needed, far from it. I post the above to illustrate why things are as they are and to encourage families to fight for good CAMHS services by recognising that they need adequate funding and investment just like any other NHS service. It's the regional health commissioning bodies that hold responsibility for the poor state of CAMHS services...they are the ones that control the purse strings and allow the services to rot due to under investment.

I'm sorry if my post is out of place on this thread and I have no wish to cause upset or offence. I and my colleagues will be reporting to the select committee on CAMHS.

I am so sorry for anyone worried about their child and not able to access support I really am. You are right to fight for the services you need, it's just a shame you are having to. I can understand people feeling directly angry at CAMHS if they can't access it when they feel they should but the reasons for this - as described above - need to be understood.

This country is a dead loss, in many ways. It annoys me so much to see the state of many of our schools, hospitals, services and communities and the many lives grinding to a halt thanks to funding issues and cut backs. When will we stop poking our noses into other country's business, entering wars we cannot win and seemingly helping just about everyone else when our own "back yard" is in a state of crisis?

We had an autism outreach service which was fantastic for my ds. We pushed for over 12 months to "qualify" for it and now, thanks to restructuring (funding issues) we have lost it, altogether. Altogether, we had it for 7 months. It is very much missed.

not to start a bunfight but mass immigration places a lot of strain too on services.

that's what I was told by one of the so called services. and CAMHS woman, everyones a priority.

and yes, the gov should be putting more funds/resources into this but it still doesn't excuse faffing about and dismissing people either.

and btw you get to go home at the evenings and weekends and get your holidays.

fulltime parents and carers don't.

and totes agree with Eliza 22.

LrtZygone, you assume I am not a carer myself..

well then youd know

Tbh, I think some services use immigration as an excuse.

Most 'new' UK residents with dc who have SEN stay in denial for a very long time: I don't know if it's cultural differences, lack of a support network, or just absorbing so many 'differences' that accepting your dc being (say) 'behind in talking' or 'naughty' is easier to cope with than chasing up the NHS to get a more accurate diagnosis.

And 'services' that tell non-migrants they're overloaded with immigrants are usually also telling them nonsense like 'you don't want her in special school, she'll catch up in her own time' or 'it's just because he doesn't speak English at home' (heavily used as a delaying tactic even with really obvious ASD, ADHD, all language disorders, global delay)

Anyway, I digress. Personally, I think these daft triage , wait & see, diversion and delay mechanisms actually add hugely to their workload. Assess, decide, do it right is far more efficient.

Sells all comments are very much welcomed.

I understand how services can feel the pressure of resources and how parents can struggle for access.

This makes it all the more galling when CAMHS get used as a political football by LAs. Our son couldn't cope with school and an alternative placement was agreed, by all involved in supporting him.

Our LA insisted he have a mental health assessment. CAMHS said they didn't need to see him if he was no well out of school working with tutors. LA didn't want to pay for tutors so badgered CAMHS to change their position. This went on for months.

Eventually, the LA went to the head of the NHS trust and we got a letter with an appointment.

We asked why this appointment was necessary, what experience the consultant had with children with AS and what the services thought it could offer him. CAMHS couldn't answer any of these questions and eventually ended up saying 'we are only offering an appointment because the LA made us'

This prevarication allowed the LA to hide behind a 'we are waiting for reports' argument when they just didn't want to pay for his tutors. It must also have wasted many hours of CAMHS time. So perhaps they should stop being so willing to get dragged into these games.

OP, that's disgraceful. Whilst everyone's faff ing around passing your "hot potato" of a child around, his life is continue ing and his needs/education requirements are not being met. Time's moving on. It's an arguement I had so many times and am still having.

as Eliza says. waiting lists and faffing about and meanwhile the child gets even more damaged with their problems.

and if CAMHS cant offer the service they are supposed to be experts about,there are supposed to be loads of other services around....

so why aren't they contacted then and do something?

Selks - I can appreciate that the service is being stretched by ever decreasing budgets and increased referrals but at present (or at least in our area) there is an awful lot of redundancy in the system. We had essentially the same two hour interview with a total of five different individuals - two psychiatrists, one mental health nurse, one psychologist and one community paediatrician. It was a waste of our time, it was a waste of there time and most importantly it was highly distressing for ds2 - he was reasonably co-operative at the first appointment but now it takes the two of us to drag him to appointments & he either hides behind a chair or makes strenuous attempts to escape from the room.

OneInEight, I've never heard of an assessment or interview that has so many professionals in it - was it for something specific? They must have felt that there was a reason for them all to be there?

Our CAMHS was quite straightforward, although it took a while to get an appt (9 months?)

The only thing I felt was that although they spent time diagnosing him, after that there was little interest or feedback. However we did get a referral to Family Therapy afterwards which was quite helpful. However, that included the whole family and the FT wasn't a specialist in ASD issues at all, although she tried to research it as she went along I think we got a fair amount of help.

At the initial discharge I felt horribly patronised and put down (interview to close the case The two professionals had not even met my son, or my family. When I said I felt upset by my child's issues (violent outbursts) there was a lot of spiel about behaviour management and my mental health, as other posters here have experienced, and very little sympathetic support. This was 30 mins of put down. It was just, go away and deal with it, here's a fact sheet (several of them). Although I have to say, the FT was very supportive and lovely, once I got away from CAMHS itself. But I could have self referred to that service through my gp without even going through CAMHS.

Going through the whole process has made me aware that only I can really get to grips with the problems, and no-one else was going to do much beyond diagnose. So you could say it has been a positive step in that way

No, have confused you. This was five different appointments each with only 1 (or at most two) professionals over a period of about a year before finally seeing someone who could actually provide some help.

I think FT is much cheaper than any other intervention for some reason.