timing of getting independent reports when I am about to put in an appeal after refusal to assess? EP and SALT can't assess til May!

[pannetone]

Sorry not the most exciting thread ever and really I am 'fine tuning' what I have asked more generally.

I have to get DD's appeal in by 23rd Feb. EP can see DD mid- May, SALT end of May. Is the timscale for getting a hearing about 4 months once my appeal has gone in? So that means I would get a hearing about mid June. How much in advance of the hearing do 'expert' reports have to be in?

AND is there also some rule that the reports have to be less than 6 months old at the time of the hearing? So if I do get the Tribunal to order the LA to assess, if I then need to go on to appeal refusal to issue a statement will I need new reports, as the initial ones will be too old? in fact even if the LA back down and agree to assess, the reports would still be out of date when it came to appealing refusal to give a statement, wouln't they?

It is all such a headache because my funds aren't endless and I think I will need EP, SALT and OT reports for DD.

Then I need a bit of a strategy for DS for whom I am going to put in a parental request to assess. I have asked if his school will get the EP in. Is it true that DS couldn't then be assessed by an independent EP for 6 months?

I booked private Ed Pysch in the Feb/Mar fully anticipating Tribunal because of crappy Statement.

Crappy Statement finalised early Jun.

Appeal lodged immediately.

Saw Ed Pysch at end of Jun.

Triibunal date Nov.

So 4/5 months waiting time for Tribunal but that was years ago.

Whoknows, i choose to go for updated EP assessment only, as i had lots of previous 'out of date' reports coming out of my ears. Ds's needs had been well and truly identified. I had strong evidence of lack of progress too.

Although an indi EP should be able to recommend that your child needs a SALT and OT assessment etc and that this should be done as part of the SA process.

Some choose to have assessments done at SA refusal stage, especially if they have no previous assessments or are unsure of what their childs needs actually are

It always amuses me when LAs suggest independent reports aren't truly independent because parents pay for them. Exactly how independent is an EP employed by the LA who knows he will be out of a job if he doesn't do what they want?

Quite

Claw - he definitely does have SALT and OT needs (I'm just not very clear what they are as his NHS provision has been so sketchy, I can see for myself there are issues). I've booked SALT and OT provisionally at the moment and am going to have a chat with an Ed.Psych this week. That will be one of the questions for her, how much time and money is involved in updating the reports.

I paid about £1,200 for EP, this didn't include any assessments other than an interview with ds, simply because was in no fit state to be assessed. He did however look at all the evidence, IEP's and info relating to Tribunal etc and tore school/LA and other professionals to shreds.

LA wrote to him and told him to withdraw his report!

Usually they don't charge as much to update a previous report.

However, when you think EP, OT, SALT assessments reports at about £1,200 each. Then maybe a further £800 each to update them, it is an expensive business.

I will add just in case it is of any use to anyone, you can get help to pay towards this cost if you are on a low income.

I suppose you could always provisionally book SALT and OT. Get EP to assess first and once you receive EP report, if you feel you have enough evidence, then cancel SALT and OT or rebook for appeal to draft statement. You should have just about enough time to cancel.

LA wrote to him and told him to withdraw his report!

Don't you just love their arrogance?

Things must ahve moved on a bit since our battle with the LA because solicitor wanted Ed Pysch report. SALT and OT never mentioned. I think an 'industry' in these has grown up in the last decade.

It's frankly ridiculous that any parent is expected to obtain all these expensive reports to prove to the unwilling that their child does actually have serious difficulties. In fact, it's expected that they do so - and that's wrong.

You really have to weep for those children whos parebts are not able or financially stable enough to collect these private assessments. Makes me quite

He did tear them a new arsehole Wet he also asked me to reply to their letter, which I did, they seemed to have forgotten that i wouldnt say anything to EP and he wouldn't quote me if i didnt have written evidence.

I did receive a copy of LA, school, PCT file etc and had evidence of their little chats via email etc. Once reminded that my statements were backed up with evidence and naming a few of their quotes from internal emails, they didn't object to his report anymore and I never did receive a reply to my letter, just a letter telling me SA had been agreed!

Yes I despair too. LA will refuse to use reports over a year old. However they have no problem writing to a SALT who ds had not seen for 3 years for an 'update' and ignore my more up to date indi SALT report from 2 years previous.

If EP recommends SALT and OT assessments are necessary they should do this as part of the SA process. However, you will get a SALT report glossing over difficulties and making vague recommendations, you then an indi SALT to counteract. Its all red tape bollox.

LOL Lovely mental images there Claw!

You know Claw, I think it's getting worse. I don't have anything concrete to compare it to because 10 years ago I didn;t have MN SN or any of the social networks we have access to now, but just being on here week in week out you start to sense that things are deteriorating.

Perhaps it's the fact that the Govt have stopped them increasing Council Tax so they need to make cuts in services. Who knows?

Or perhaps schools are just becoming such hostile envirinments for students with ASD that more children are so anxious thay simply cannot attend (almost said 'are refusing to go to school - but stopped myself in time ).

Whatever the reason - it's depressing.

I

I don't know either Wet, i have my two 'nt' boys, who are much older now and when they were at school, i trotted along to parents evening etc. Teachers seemed honest and open. If a teacher told me one of my ds's had been 'naughty' and my ds told me he hadn't, i would believe the teacher. My thinking, why would a teacher possibly want to lie to get a 6 year old into trouble etc! I would happily push my child out of the door if they didn't want to go, knowing they would be fine when they got there.

Then i entered the world of SN's, worlds apart from my 'nt' school experience, some dingy little underworld, filled with lies and deceit, where you cant trust no one to have the best interests of your child at heart.

SN children not wanting to go and parents not wanting to send them, severe lack of trust, not a good combination.

Anyhow i am becoming all doom and gloom!

^It's frankly ridiculous that any parent is expected to obtain all these expensive reports to prove to the unwilling that their child does actually have serious difficulties. In fact, it's expected that they do so - and that's wrong.

You really have to weep for those children whos parebts are not able or financially stable enough to collect these private assessments. Makes me quite angry^

My point exactly. With DS1 after two 2 EP reports that found no problem I finally had an indi EP assessment for SpLD. I had no idea what other difficulties there may have been and no other assessments or diagnoses. I applied on that basis. After 2 refusals, when assessment began it became obvious that this was in no way 'full' and that DS1 would remain a mystery. So I borrowed 3K and booked MS and DK. I had not even told the LA that I suspected ASD or even raised related concerns because it was not a 'diagnosed fact' and I thought that it would weaken my case wrt SpLD if he were assessed but found not to have ASD.

When DS1 saw Margo I really thought that she would say that he did not have an ASD, that it was just anxiety. Instead, one of the first things she said to me was 'get his hair cut - it is such an Aspie thing'. Then DK diagnosed him a week later within minutes. This was about a month before the proposed was due. I was advised that I should send the reports to the LA (who would ignore them) before they drafted the proposed otherwise it would be argued that I had withheld the ASD diagnosis and tricked them into issuing a dyslexia statement. (I know, this is mad). Of course, once I had covered my arse, the LA could blithely ignore the indi reports whilst carrying out further assessment in the hope of finding something they can use against me at tribunal. Then I borrowed a lot more money and got indi OT and EP reports and paid for FS + MS + Ruth Birnbaum as expert witnesses.

My application was made in very good faith and I genuinely feared for DS1's continued survival if I didn't 'win', but I still had to cover my arse and pay for indi reports.

DS1 was out of school for the who five month period before hearing. It made no difference to the hearing date - I asked for the case to be expedited. The whole EOTAS thing was a nightmare but in the end we found a good tutor. It made a big difference at tribunal that DS1 was willing to attend the parentally named school and had done a 3 day visit but was not willing to enter the LA named school.

Wow! Keep. What an ordeal.

We used RB too.

KeepOn, we are at tribunal on the 14th and also have MS as witness. She picked up major language difficulties in dd aged 15 (1st centile in some areas) and the LA so far have ignored her report, the indi EP and indi sensory OT we've provided.

They have never, not even during SA or since AR in April last year when we requested a change of placement, done an EP assessment and the OT (none sensory) is 2 1/2 years old (was done a year before SA) and the SALT one is 2 years old which was only basic. They're I soaring our reports do not supersede them! My DD is diagnosed ASD and MS picked up on her ADHD/PDA behaviours. The sensory OT has diagnosed significant complex sensory modulation disorder. DD has a very spikey profile so unable to give her an IQ score.

She's been out of school since July as she was on the verge of a breakdown and has told all who will listen her experiences in the school and how much she hates it and is scared she will be forced to return. The LA still refuse to offer an alternative (that's because there isn't one). DD lives her 3 day trial at the indi school.

*stating our reports not I soaring!

"You really have to weep for those children whos parebts are not able or financially stable enough to collect these private assessments"

My ds is one of 'those children'. There is just no money for private assessments. I'm about to appeal a refusal to assess but sounds like I should give up now....

NO Cardboard - please do not give up.

You can still argue your case effectively without expensive private reports.

Please don't give up

Cardboard, I have no idea of your financial situation, but as I started up thread you can get these reports paid for if you are on a low income.

Even if you are not, a SA should be about lack of progress and identifying needs, not expensive reports. The whole point of SA is to identify why and to do this LA should arrange assessments.

Thanks wet, no I won't give up but it does feel pretty dispiriting when it now seems to be the norm to foot the cost of private assessments, when you can't do that. Think I'm just feeling a but blue today- you know how it goes. Ignore me!

And thanks claw too. No not such low income that we'd get help, just high London rents and cost of living means we only ever break even - and only just! Will keep plugging away though!

sazale - the LA totally ignored all the indi reports as well but when we got the first LA response to a WD I had completely re-written (in paper, at the court on the day of the hearing) the reports were in parts 2 and 3.

My LA conceded on parts 2, 3 and 4 an hour after the hearing started so I did not get to see MS in action.

It bodes well that the LA have not done more up-to-date assessment. I can't imagine that any Tribunal panel would give more weight to less comprehensive and older reports.

Cardboard - don't give up, ever! DH had to grovel to his father and convince him to lend us the money when we were already committed to tribunal and the LA solicitors were demanding extra assessments - even though they did not have time to get NHS SALT and OT they suddenly found thousands for private assessments. FIL initially wanted to be in control and didn't really believe that there was anything wrong with DS1 offering to pay half of indi ms fees if we would pay the other half. We just bombarded him with the reports we had not previously shared. He never referred to it again but did lend us the money.

I also had an IPSEA caseworker on the run-up to tribunal. As a tribunal virgin it was extremely useful to have someone else on board who is familiar with the legal process and she picked up useful stuff - like the fact that the LA named school was due to close within weeks of the hearing date and was able to get several tribunal orders before we got to the hearing.