Mainstream school or Speech and language unit?

[adrianna1]

I have a four year old son who has a severe speech and language delay.... only saying 15 words! ( I know this is not a lot! but I'm happy with his progress ), uses lots of babbling and vocialisations and made- up signs/ gestures to communicate.

All the professionals think he just has a speech delay, he has been tested for everything.. disorders, autism, etc etc. Though finding this quite hard to accept that it most probably is a speech delay.

My son is currently in a nursey, and soon to start a reception place. I was adament that he should go to a mainstream school, wait a year see how he gets on and then next year think about placing him into a speech unit.

Though, I have now had a change of heart and thinking of placing him to a speech unit this year.

But! I have doubts. When speaking to my SENCO and speech therapist that I'm thinking of putting my son into a speech unit. They pause... for quit a long time and then tell me to look into it. Though my speech therapist then admitted that my son would be fine in Mainstream. Has this happend to you too?

Are speech units good? As confused whether why SENCO and speech therapist always diver.

Do all speech units provide intensive speech therapy??

To parents- Was a speech unit no different to mainstream? ( in terms of health)

Also, did you see a massive improvement in your child/children?

I stupidly did not put a speech unit place down.... I have not used up my 5 school places though.

Plus, I have began the statement process but i realy doubt it would get done in time.

thanks.

Round where we live it's called "enhanced provision for speech and language", googling that and my LEA gets you to a random document about funding options that handily includes a list of all speech and other specialist units in the county! Then once you know the name of the primary schools with a unit you can google that and find out more including contact details of the school in question. The SENCO of the school may be a good person to call or the person in charge of the unit itself. Our nhs speech therapist arranged for the head of the unit to come and observe our DS to get an informal idea of whether she thinks the unit is suitable for him. But it sounds like your therapist isn't that helpful or proactive (or maybe the links between health and education aren't so good in your area)...

adrianna you say you're at the 'letter stage' and keep redrafting it to give to the SENCO? Does that mean that you haven't actually even started the process?? If so, just get the letter in - you get to give further views before they make a decision whether to assess. Even if you get it in today, you'll only get a finalised statement on 5th August - there really is no time to faff around with wording at this stage!

The professionals are not 'allowed' to direct you because if they give you the impression that either your child 'needs' a SALU, or 'could really do with...' one, then you can use that as part of an appeal/tribunal.

The reality is that SALUs are few and far between and they aren't just sitting there waiting for you to decide. For every child who gets a place, there may well be several who don't.

Just as an example, DD1's school had over 30 parents who came to an 'open day' and there are just a handful of places. Many of those think they are 'choosing' whether to send their child to special school. The reality is that the LA are choosing whether to give a place to their child, or the 4 other children who 'need' it.

SALUs generally take children that are 'fixable' by the time they leave the unit. In other words, children who would improve massively with the support offered so that they can go on to mainstream school.

I agree Lougle. We ended up having speech therapy twice daily delivered by DD's TA in MS school. The Speech unit weren't equipped to deal with her needs. She was a tricky case as she had/has articulation issues caused by a small jaw, tongue too big for her mouth space, short repaired palate, tracheostomy, deaf and an ingrained habit of making glottal sounds.

Very much agree with lougle, the "choice" you think you have may be taken out your hands if you don't kick off the process ASAP. The initial letter requesting a staturoy assessment doesn't matter too much (just mention severe speech delay and possible wider issues) - they will likely then ask you for more info as part of their info gathering in deciding whether to assess which is supposed to take 6 weeks from when they receive the letter. Or if they don't ask you can submit that further info anyway!

You also need to be prepared your LEA turns down your request for a stat assessment, in which case you will need to appeal immediately. We did this 2 days after receiving the refusal to assess letter but someone on this board did it within 90 minutes, lol! But that has held us up by 5 weeks (the time it took the LEA to concede the appeal and confirm they were doing the assessment) which means for us the 26 weeks is now looking more like 30 weeks and that's if the remainder of the process goes smoothly.

Keep coming on here for advice, lots of very clued up (battle scarred) people

Just as an aside I mis typed statement process in an earlier post and autocorrect made it "tormenting process"!

Just to clarify, as part of the Statutory Assessment process, the LA MUST ask you for more information once you have sent the letter, before they decide whether to assess.

That is interesting about the 'fixable issues'. Ds is completely non verbal and will rely on other methods of communication at school (signing and aac) so don't know if this would be best suited for speech unit or not? He has other issues as well, so maybe the 'complex needs unit' is a better fit.

The unit we are hoping for, for ds is described as 'complex needs' so not specifically speech. They have an intake of up to 8 children and have a ratio of 2 or 3 to 1 member of staff, 1-1 when children go into ms for periods of time.

Once ds gets statement and is in, we will investigate next step at junior level, more fully.

I'd be amazed if a SALU would take your DS, Hazey. The units normally take children with 'pure' Speech and language difficulties, rather than children for whom S&L is one component of their difficulties.

Interestingly we are not looking at S&L specifically for DS at secondary despite being delighted with his progress in one at primary / junior level. His difficulties are wide ranging to the point that his speech is secondary to his other difficulties.

Agree with the others about urging speed with all this though. LA's are notoriously slow.

It is such a minefield and I can clearly remember the moment the penny dropped for me that the authorities wouldn't automatically do the right thing my son. Once that happened though things improved for him as I found my inner lioness!

I guess speech units vary in their criteria, our son has ASD diagnosis (as well as Verbal dyspraxia) and that's apparently not a reason for the unit near us not to take him. They're ok with it as long as its deemed to be mild and "secondary to his speech and language needs".

Ah ok, that's good to know Lougle. I think when ds is at junior age, we will have to look at special schools, the nearest of which is 30 miles away. The junior that is local, does have a unit, but it is not supposed to be very good. Of course then we will probably struggle to get him into the special school and will have the whole transport issue to deal with.......

Hi

My head is now in a spin.

Answering to Starlight's question… all the professionals that work with my son seem to think he just has a speech delay. A severe one, so I'm guessing they think his main issues are speech. He also understands way more than he can speak.

I'm surprised to hear that the speech units seem to take kids who are 'fixable'!!! my son has a severe language delay, and I don't think his language would be the same level as his peers by two years.

@ lougle… I see now. No one is helping with this statement process and I don't know much about it, and I was told to send off a really good letter by SENCO. So, I assumed the letter was important.

Also about the professionals not allowing to tell me. When I was asking my speech therapist if my son should have second re-assessments or be tested for other things… she strongly said that she's "100% sure that my son just has a speech delay, or that his too young to tell if he has other things going on..". So, if she thinks my son has a speech delay, I don't get why she would contradict herself by saying this rehearsed statement " Speech units are good for kids who have language delays". ( I know this is rehearsed as my SENCO said the exact same thing).

@ahhcantthink… Thanks for the information and yes it is a tormenting process.. I'm just going to send off the letter as it is…the SENCO wants to see it to add in a few things..though I'm worried now she would just delay it.

Thanks everyone for your advice, it's really helpful!!
I'm going to visit a speech unit on Monday, I'm lucky that there is a unit near where I live. Though, london is big and I'm doubtful he would get a place there…but we'll see.

When you guys say speech issues.. what exactly do you mean?

As speech language delays/ disorders effect the child quite a lot. My son has very good understanding, but is not able to communicate this verbally as he gets frustrated and frequent tantrums. He is also delayed in his play. He has really good functional skills and had good imaginary play skills..though is not further developed than kids of his age. Also, my speech therapist said that speech and language go together.

I don't know anymore. This is hard.

Sorry I meant " When you guys say just speech issues regarding unit placements"...

Right. I have heard this before. What I am about to write DOESN'T mean your child has autism but...

I think she is implying that she thinks the speech issue is separate from the language issue. It is a popular idea that children with ASD traits often have language delay that is separate from their speech issues.

Speech and Language units often only deal with the speech side of things. So articulation, oral motor, perhaps word-finding difficulties etc.

But they might not be able to deal with the semantic-pragmatic issues or issues of social communication.

Here is an extract from one LA's guidance on SALUs:

The overall aim of this specialist provision ( ALC 1 & 2 ) is to maximise the educational achievements and wellbeing of all pupils with specific speech and language difficulties which will enable them to return to mainstream education as soon as they are able to perform linguistically at the same level as the majority of their peers.
.....
Admission is considered when:
"the result of an assessment by a specialist Speech & Language Therapist identifies that the child’s communication disorder is considered the primary learning disability;
? the child’s ability falls within the broad average band and their non-verbal skills shown to be of average or above average ability as assessed by an Educational Psychologist;
? their disorder is considered severe enough to make full time placement in a main stream class inappropriate; and
? the child’s difficulties in acquiring language must be reflected in evidence of difficulties with their ‘mother tongue’

The speech and language difficulties experienced by such pupils can be broadly categorised into the following areas.
? Phonological difficulties: difficulty with the organisation of sounds;
? Grammatical difficulties: difficulty with the acquisition of the grammatical structure of language including, word order, and word endings;
? Receptive difficulties: difficulty in understanding what is said and usually including phonological and grammatical difficulties as described above;
? Semantic-pragmatic difficulties: difficulty interpreting meaning from language or using language appropriately and beyond the literal meaning;
? Articulatory difficulties: difficulty in performing and / or co-ordinating fine and rapid tongue, lip and sometimes palatal movements necessary for speech;
? Autistic Spectrum Disorder: where the primary difficulty is due to language impairment.

These criteria do not describe the needs of pupils whose language impairment is secondary to other difficulties or conditions as defined in the SEN Code of Practice.....

Such difficulties include:
? Physical Needs or Disability;
? Severe or Moderate Learning difficulties;
? Behavioural / Emotional / Social Needs;
? Profound Hearing Loss;
? Autism; and
? K.S.1 & 2 pupils with Dyslexic profiles

Evidence shows that pupils with delayed rather than disordered language skills and pupils who stammer are more beneficially placed in mainstream settings with teaching and community support which at times, within , may be addressed by the provision of SALTs input.

This has also proved to be the most effective provision for pupils’ whose language skills are impoverished due to environmental factors."

So perhaps inaccurate of me to use the word 'fixable'. It's more that they consider that speech and language must be very firmly the primary need and that the overall goal is to enhance pupil performance linguistically to the same level as their (non-SpLD) peers and enable pupils to return to mainstream provision.

It doesn't exclude children with ASD, as such. It excludes Autism, where language is a secondary feature. ASD where language is a primary feature is accepted.

I know what you're saying, zzzzz, it does seem so very harsh.

DD1 would not have been accepted by a SALU either - even though she has many speech and language difficulties. She's 8 and we still struggle to understand her, and it gets even worse when she's tired. It's so sad to see a 4 year old say 'what?? ' when she speaks to them. To her, her language is perfect. She hears it so clearly in her head, I'm certain.

Well I guess classic autism, where the main issues may be, say, rigidity in behaviour, obsessive routines, sensory issues, and the child may be minimally verbal etc. vs HFA or Aspergers, where those features may be quite subtle but there could be quite disordered language, which if successfully 'modified' would greatly diminish the effect of the ASD, to the extent that MS education would be possible.

Hi Guys, sorry I meant she said " speech and play go together" not language.

He has been tested for autism, but result was inconclusive.

Adrianna, the SENCO will be contacted by the LA when they are info gathering to decide whther to assess so she will have plenty of opportunity to provide her input... It's unfortunate SENCOs often don't give good advice, yours clearly doesnt appeciate the urgency in your case given your son is starting school in 8 months and may need specialist support. Ours similarly advised us to "wait till jan" when we submitted our request back in October...

My (simplistic) understanding of a few things:
1 Receptive language - what the person can understand, eg when shown lots of pictures of different animals, can the person point out a monkey?
2 Expressive language - the words a person knows, eg if a person is shown a picture of a monkey can their brain retrieve the word "monkey" even if they cannot pronounce it?
3 Speech production - ability to (clearly) say the word they want to say

I think speech units require 1 to be within the normal range and they are focussed on tackling 3 and maybe 2 as well, but I admit I'm a little confused about this point, would be interested to hear from anyone who can shed some light! Star you say "perhaps word finding difficulties", is this similar to expressive language as I've described it?

Great news you're seeing a unit, hopefully they will be able to explain the whole process to you and help you figure out whether its the right option for your DS. Let us know how you get on.

My son does have a delay, but professionals say that his development is not impaired???

Hmm....I'm trying to be a bit objective here (because I totally see your stance and don't disagree with it, but trying to understand the logic):

If you have 8 SALU places, where the whole focus is specifically to combat the SAL issues a child has, then you want to take the children who can make the most progress with the intensive support.

SALTs aren't (with the exception of moondog types) behaviourists, they are Speech and Language Therapists. If they spend their time combating behavioural/physical/BESD/learning difficulties, then they can't spend that time correcting speech and language deficits.

A child who is cognitively broadly average, who has well developed functional skills and has well developed non-verbal skills, can make the very most of the expertise of the SALT team at the units.

If those children can progress to the point that they can manage in MS education with or without support, then that frees up funding and spaces for other children who can benefit similarly - it's lifting those children out of intensive support into a lighter touch support.

When DD1 was statemented, the Ed Psych made quite a lot of her 'at least age appropriate' knowledge of numbers, colours, etc. She also specifically said 'time will tell if language is DD1's primary need.' I think she possibly was thinking of a SALU as a possibility. However, DD1's knowledge of numbers hasn't progressed in an age appropriate manner. She can do simple addition of single digit numbers, but needs adult support to record it. She has continuous SAL therapy through the week, but her SAL are still quite similar to when she was at preschool (vocab has expanded and sentence length, but articulation is not much different).

IMO, she'd still have needed special school afterwards if she'd gone to a SALU, and they wouldn't have had the ratios she needed.