LA proof my daughter making progress - views?

[bjkmummy]

had a refusal for stat assessment - letter now come and ive already appealed! however sat here stewing over the letter regarding grounds for refusal. they are using her NC levels to show progress but im confused how theyve 'used' the figures - shes 10 and in year 5

y4 summer y5 autumn points progress

english 2a 2a/3c 1
writing 2a/b 3c 3
maths 2a/b 2a 1

i just cant work out if their points progess they are saying is right ie they are skewing the figures to read shes made more progress

in year 3 autumn and spring she was 2c in everything and summer of year 3 and autumn of y4 she was 2b

her spelling age is now 7yrs 2months - shes was 10 yrs 2 months when tested

the dyslexia action report scores from oct 2013 have been ignored

that report puts reading and maths at 2nd centile and spelling 7th centile

her expected scores observed scores
reading 92 70
spelling 93 78
numeracy 92 69

working memory 4th centile

do the LA have a point and she is making enough progress that a tribunal wont agree she needs to be assessed? i dont want to fight if i have no chance of succeeding.

I'm sorry NJk - I know nothing about NC levels so am keeping you company more than being useful, but I can see that those sound very dodgy.

Try to put this out of your mind now that you've lodged your appeal. A request for SA is about much more than just the achievement or otherwise of NC levels. If you think your LA is lying (and you're probably right) open up another avenue of attack and focus on the actual difficulties in performance rather than the achievement or otherwise of dodgy (and sometimes subjective) NC levels.

Yeah - I know - I give rubbish advice because when I was in your shoes I couldn't mentally switch off either

Thanks wet :-) I know I can't switch off - I should know better I was at tribunal this time last year with her twin and I didn't switch off then which was unhealthy! There's nothing I can do yet - so going to let this slow burn for a few months and if all is hopeless as I get near the hearing then I can withdraw but I'm hoping as the months pass the school will either put support in or she improves or well I just don't know anymore. And now to bed as both boys in respite tomorrow so my, dh and daughter are heading to ikea god help us!

Oooh! Ikea! I went to ours just after Christmas. Just for a look around you understand?

Came out about 5 hours and £88 lighter.

Enjoy

I agree with Wet, focus on the wider implications like self esteem, anxiety etc. There's some info in the Rose Report about connected issues in chapter 5.

I'm going to tribunal for refusal to assess for my DS and his main difficulty at school is reading and writing, he scores higher than your dd though. I find myself focusing on the reading/writing and then I have to remind myself that he has other difficulties as well, hyper mobility, auditory processing, social anxiety etc.

Could it be that as her main difficulty is her dyslexia that there are other issues that are maybe not as obvious but are there and impacting on things?

I think she may have dyspraxia as well. School were meant to refer her and gushed about how they would do it. I then found out they had never refered her :-( in the refusual letter the LA say school have no concerns re dyspraxia which makes me wonder if they haven't refered her as they know she could be - the school know she can't ride a bike, her tray at school is a mess as she so disorganised, she's always losing thing at school etc etc -the evidence is there at school. I am awaiting the nhs referral as once I found out school hadn't done it I got the referral done. School are unaware that I know they haven't done it. I do have the option of getting a private OT report done which I am seriously considering

It's so frustrating. I'm like you in that I find it hard to switch off from it all. The LA are putting us through the wringer right now with dd (ASC) and we're at tribunal next month. If we win the independent placement I'm seriously considering home schooling DS.

I was where you were last year - had her twin brothers tribunal last feb where we won independent - part of me feels this is very personal as in its payback for winning a 70k a year placement last year. Hang in there sazale, I know that's easy to say but without us fighting for the kids who is going to fight for them

It seems odd that your DD would have a flat level of 2c (13pts) then an exact rise of 2 points per subject (up to 15pts - 2b) across the board

That said, the NC has levels. Level 1, 2, 3, 4, etc. They are the only official levels. Sub-levels aren't really 'there' - schools use them to monitor the 'baby-steps' between levels.

2c is 13 pts on the NC scale. 2b is 15 points - the end of KS1 'expected' level.

Then, over the next 4 years, the child is expected to gain 2 levels, or 12 points, to reach a '4b'.

'Expected progress' is 3 points per year on average.

If you drew a chart using The primary tool kit for your DD, the results are:

Writing -by Year 3 summer, she was 1 pt below her expected score. By Year 4 summer, she was 3 points below her 'expected' score (1 year's worth of progress, in other words). However, now, in Year 5, she's currently only 1 point below her expected score again. So to meet her expected 'end of KS2' target (which should be a 4c because it's 2 levels/12 points above her end of KS1 score), she'll have to make 6 points progress over the next 5 terms, which is the equivalent of a child without difficulty making expected progress plus 1/5 (20%).

English - by Year 3 summer, she was 1 pt below her expected score. By Year 4 summer, she was 2pts below her expected score (2/3 of a year's progress). Now, in Year 5, she's still 2 pts below her expected score, so to meet her end of KS2 target, she'll have to make 7 points progress over the next 5 terms, which is the equivalent of a child without difficulty making expected progress plus 2/5 (40%)

Maths - by Year 3 summer, she was 1 pt below her expected score. By Year 4 summer, she was 3 pts below her expected score (1 year's worth of progress). However, now in Year 5, she's still 3 points below her expected score, so to meet her end of KS2 target, she'll have to make 8 pts progress over the next 5 terms, so the same as a child with no difficulty making expected progress plus 3/5 (60%).

I think my argument would be that unless they think your DD is so amazing that the current provision for her will allow her to achieve between 20-60% better than her NT peers, then she will not meet the expectations set by her end of KS1 scores, even taking into account the lower starting position.

Thanks lougle - i really appreciate that - you are a star

I hope that helps. I did actually draw your DD's chart on graph paper but even if you did it on a piece of plain paper, you'd see the trajectory she's meant to follow, vs what she's actually doing.

It does seem odd for her to be able to make 200% progress in one term then 0% progress in another term, then 50% progress in 2 terms, then 100% progress in the next term. Some children do stall then rocket, but it does seem.....interesting.

There is a world of difference between expected level of progress and adequate progress according to criteria for SA.

DS1 was 3c in the spring of year 2 and 3c at the end of year 5. Whichever way you calculate it, that is a big fat zero. Application for SA was refused twice. When he left year 6 he was 3a - 2 sublevels or 4 points 'progress' rather than two flat levels or 12 points between KS1 - KS2. This was not why he was assessed. According to the LA the 4 points progress following years of no progress (increased rate of progress in comparison) proved that recent intervention was proving successful. The head/senco even said to me 'if only we had him for one more year'. Over my dead body!

He was assessed because he met the LA criteria for assessment (less than 6 months progress in an academic year during intervention). You cannot use NC progress data to calculate this. NC levels are subjective and it is relatively easy for teachers to ignore difficulties with reading and spelling and focus on the use of 'wow' words, punctuation, paragraphs etc. Standardised tests of reading and spelling highlight the particular difficulties that SpLD causes.

Look at this site for levels and points:

www.stokehilljunior.devon.sch.uk/downloads/National_Curriculum_Point_Scales.pdf

My headache at the moment is that I honestly don't think my La have a criteria for statementing. I am going to ask for it but I don't think there is one, there isn't one published online and friends who have links within the LA confirm my view, a lone statementing officer under the guise if 'panel' makes the decision so I've got to fight this non existent criteria. Interestingly my letter does refer to her not meeting the criteria so they are saying there is one but if it exsists it is not in the public domain at all

NC levels are pretty blunt instrument and can hide gaps and teacher assessments not always very accurate.

Expected progress for her would have been 2 levels between end year 2 and end year 6 - so ? 2c to 4c.
4c would seem unlikely on current trajectory

Anything below 4c will make it difficult to access secondary mainstream education without additional support (e.g. 1:1 / learning unit). By the time your tribunal is heard secondary will be on the horizon and its a reasonable question for a tribunal to consider how a child on level 3 will access secondary school education without significant support.

Standardised testing showed a progress of 3 months in one year during the same term when DS1 progressed 2 sub-levels using NC levels.

Adequate progress should not be only down to NC levels. My DS with ASD has a statement, although he was above NC levels, but in a pushy school.

In the code of practice it is clearly articulated that progress needs to be compared to your DD's peer group and to your DDs own progress in other circumstances, or to her potential. The fact that the LA own progress data show acceleration and then stagnation are potentially evidence of inadequate progress. Her progress seem to be erratic (vs her own progress records), does all her class go through the harmonica of rapid progress and then stagnation?
Do you have any cognitive assessments to show that she is under performing?

The teachers could be of great help. Does your DD struggle with any subjects or tasks in particular, something that would be a barrier in the secondary school? How is she coping emotionally and behaviorally? What about her self esteem?

These might be some other factors you could identify to support inadequate progress for your appeal

hi bonkers - i have a recent EP report from dyslexia action which shows she is underachieving according to her ability - i put the figures above as the expected scores/observed scores so in reading for example they would expect a score of 92 for her ability - she achieved 70 so a difference of 22 - this would be seen in 2 - 3 % of children - if ive read the figure right.

she struggles with everything - reading shes on the 2nd centile, spelling 7th centile, maths 2nd centile, reading speed 9th centile, working memory 4th centile. school wrote a report wher eit stated that she had 6 months of intensive help and it had failed - in fact she had lost most of what she learnt - i apply for a statement and then she goes up on sublevel on her NC so now shes making proress even though she is still very behind and is not making the same progress as her peers . she is in a class of 10 children with a teacher and a TA so her progress should have excelerated given the small class sizes and the amount of extra input she has had

An ASD diagnosis is a deal changer. It gives a 'free pass' wrt 'cognition and learning' because ASD is recognised as a life-long disability and so it is discriminatory not to make reasonable adjustment in order to make sure that the curriculum can be accessed in an equal way to a non-disabled child. Disability that impacts on social communication skills means that the child is entitled to support that enables equal access to curriculum regardless of academic attainment. That support is detailed in an statement. The LA know they are trying it on. For example, see the dfe inclusion policy - the last appendix is a reminder of duties under the equality act. www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/190246/00041-2009BKT-EN.pdf. Hence, the common experience that appealing refusal leads to the LA doing a u-turn.

SpLD is all about 'cognition and learning'. The LA is more likely to stick to it's guns and allow the hearing to go ahead if DC don't meet the criteria. My LA don't advertise their SEN policy or make it available. I made a specific request to parent partnership - they did not offer.

I had to do both SpLD and ASD 'cases' because the initial application was made before DS1 was diagnosed and because the main approach of the LA on the run-up to tribunal was to challenge the ASD diagnosis.

Bjkmummy, if your DD had allegedly make progress after intense help, this is evidence that intense help is necessary. Is such intensity sustainable for the school? Can they continue this help indefinitely from within their own current resources? It seems that for making any progress your DD requires intervention above and beyond what is available to the school without a statement...

bonkers - well its hard to say if she has made progress after intense help - the school put in writing that the intense help hadn't worked and that she had forgotten everything she had learnt during this period and that would make sense given her poor working memory - as soon as we said we were going to tribunal the teachers attitude suddenly changed and then she starts to say shes making progress. the teacher did a reading test with her which makes her reading score at higher at age 8 - although she is age 10 but the teacher has done a completely different test to one done before. also we are paying for an hours 1:1 specialist teaching - the teacher said to me that she understood why we were applying as keira would get the specialist teaching she needs - that's part of my argument that yes she needs more help and specialist teaching is something that the school will need more funding for. I am getting an EP to see in a few months to re do the standardised testing to see just how much progress she really has made. the school are not helping as they are changing the view by the hour. the refusal letter makes it sound like its all us as parents having concerns yet it was the school who raised concerns, school who put in extra support and then when the extra helped failed refused to call in the EP even though she was so far behind leaving us no choice for her to be seen by dyslexia action.