Which school?????

[Fromdeepestperu]

Hi, I have a nine year old ds in year 4 at the local primary school.

He has a statement of SEN as he has severe dyslexia, dyslcalculia, ADD and mild speech, language and communication difficulties. His actual cognitive abilities are broadly average for his age, although often 'hidden' beneath his learning difficulties.

Where we live, there is no specialist provision for SPLD - no resource units/bases etc. I cannot for a moment imagine how he would manage in a mainstream secondary school; he is only just about coping academically, socially and emotionally in primary school and that is with as much support as they can give. Our county has an 'inclusion policy' and so trying to get funding for a specialist independent school would - I imagine - be nigh on impossible. This is sad because there is a great independent school 11 miles away which is specifically for children with SPLD. However, even with a bursary, we could not afford it. No way.

So. We're stuck and could use some advice from anyone else who has a severely dyslexic child. How can we get the best education for him? Do we send him to the local comp where is sister (very bright) is doing ok in all the top sets? He would be put in all the bottom sets, I've no doubt, and if he is lucky, he may have some small group/1 to 1 support in the 'pathfinder unit' which is where pupils with behavioural and/or learning difficulties go. I don't want this for him.

This is really getting me down, and I've no idea what to do or where to turn. Even the SENCo and SLT say it would be so great if he could go to this specialist school.

Thanks in advance for any advice/experience!

Will watch this with interest as I'm in the same position with my daughter who is 10, I've just applied for a statement and will find out this week if they will assess. She is 4 years behind due to dyslexia.

Hi bjk, I sympathise - I really hope they assess although I can't see how they can say no if she is 4 years behind!

It's horrible isn't it not knowing what will happen. I have 2 boys with asd and in a way it was easier for them as I could get them asd specific placements but with dyslexia it's seems harder. We are also having her referred for dyspraxia. My added headache is that e local secondary have said they don't want her so the other school is the other side of the county so for a child with a lousy memory it's not looking good. Just wish there was more provision available with more specialist teachers

I agree. My son has a terrible memory, organisational skills, processing etc. so just the practicalities of a mainstream state comp are ridiculous for him!

It doesn't matter if the LA has an "inclusion policy." All LAs do, as it was required of them when the right for children with SEN to be educated in mainstream was established. I've read the one belonging to my own LA and it completely misses the point for so many kids with SEN.

As far as the SENCOP, as it stands, is concerned, so long as it's deemed suitable, if you want your child out of mainstream, then the LA have to go with this. Getting an Indy placement is harder, since it's usually expensive for them, but if you can demonstrate that they have no provision, of their own, suitable for your DS, then they have to consider an Indy placement that is suitable.

Whilst your LA may not agree to the independent school, of course that doesn't stop you appealing for a place. You will need good expert evidence to show that your son's needs can't be met in the mainstream.

"so long as it's deemed suitable, if you want your child out of mainstream, then the LA have to go with this."

That's not the way I read the SEN CoP, ouryve. The parents have the right to state a preference for a maintained school, or make a representation for an independent school.

The duty is on the LA to secure MS provision unless it's unsuitable, is incompatible with the efficient education of other children, or an inefficient use of resources.

However, the same applies to Special School placements - if the LA deem it to be an inefficient use of resources (ie. a MS school is suitable, can meet need and cheaper) then they can deny a special school place.

They don't have to allow a special school place just because a parent wants it and can show it would be suitable.

Sorry lougle - in hindsight I was as clear as mud and my post did appear to be misleading. Had rather a foggy brain, this weekend.

The OP shouldn't be intimidated by the LA's push for "inclusion" as a default, though and shouldn't be put off from researching other options.

I guess the issue would be 'proving' that the independent school is the only place for him. As far as I recall, the LA isn't obliged to provide 'the best' education, only an 'adequate' education. How the heck to you define that?????

Unfortunately it's not proving that the independent school is the only place - it's more about proving that the LA school cannot meet need.

This is exactly what I had to do to get my severely dyslexic DS into a specialist indie school. I had to go through Tribunal and prove to a Judge that the LA could not meet need at the school they'd named in part 4.

This included 6 indie reports (because they refused to assess as well) (2 x EP, 2 x SALT, 2 x OT). Then my EP had to go into the LA school to assess. I also used FOI searches on both the LA named school and the LA themselves to prove that the LA school could not meet need and used the FOI to show that the LA lied misrepresented the truth during the hearing.

At the end of it, the Tribunal's panel used all my reports and (ironically) the LAs reports to reach the decision that the LA school could not meet need.

It was not at all about whether the indie school could meet need. That barely came into it. In fact, my LA didn't even consult with the indie school - when they should have done.

I don't think it's defined as "adequate" education - can't remember the precise word - it could be "appropriate education" (but I might be wrong).

It was a long hard fight (including 12 months of home ed) but worth it in the end.

All LA,s will go on about inclusion as an excuse, but I got my daughter into year 7 at Frewen College an independent Specialist School (dyslexia and Speech/comunication)
I was told she would have to go to mainstream secondary as they had provision but I proved that the Therapy she required was not going to be available at any mainsteam (cutbacks) and as she has severe language disorder she needed both SALT and OT for sensory and balance issues etc. She had never seen a SALT before year 7 so they were not dismissing her needs after failing to diagnose her until age 11. You need to prove the school CANNOT educate. Use costs also ,as they will say it an inefficient use of resources ,get details of what therapy costs to be bought into school. I went to tribunal without solicitor and they withdrew case 6 days before. She attends Frewen and is thriving- she hates school holidays as she wants to be at school. I am glad i fought as much as i did. they do try to make you believe it is not possible, but it is if case is strong.
Good luck Mandyxx

mmm and TOWIE - I was heartened to read your posts and I'm so glad your dc are getting the education they deserve!

Please can you give me some advice on HOW to prove that the LA school can't meet his needs? Do I cite lack of specialist teachers? It's not great that there are 30 kids in the class and he has attention/distraction difficulties. The entire curriculum has to be differentiated for him, and I truly believe they are trying their best, but trying to get anything eg. a special computer programme takes so long as there's so many other things/children to deal with. However, I just don't know how exactly to put a finger on what's not good enough!

His progress is very slow, would that swing it? He's made about one NC sublevel of progress in 2 years.

Unfortunately, slow progress, on its own, won't swing it at all - although it can add weight to the rest of the evidence.

You need hard written evidence from professionals as to exactly what needs your DC has, along with them quantifying how many hours therapy/teaching etc DC requires for each need.

Then, after you have that, the FOI is your friend to determine from the LA school if they can meet those needs

For example, one of my DS's diagnosis is severe dyslexia - agreed by 2 indie EPs and 2 LA EPs so that was never in dispute. Although 3 EPs said dyslexia was primary barrier to learning but 4th (LA EP present at Tribunal) said difficult to tell whether primary need was dyslexia or speech and language - but then promptly stated primary need was speech and language (judge tore into her for doing that and EP totally undermined her own evidence because of it!)

So next stop was FOI sent to the school asking questions like

• how many teachers have a qualification for dyslexia
• how many pupils have dyslexia on their statement
• how do they differentiate for dyslexic pupils
• and the same questions again for each of my DS's needs

Etc etc

Surprise surprise FOI came back with no dyslexia experience, no teachers with dyslexia qualifications, no other pupils with dyslexia. So when the LA lied were economical with the truth during the hearing, we were able to go straight to FOI (which was all in the evidence bundle) and look at the FOI to show they were lying mistaken

Also, the FOI can also point out other lack of resources. For example, the LA school had an attached SALT unit - the FOI showed it was under resourced and they would have to buy in help for DS. Even worse, the FOI showed that despite it being a SALT unit, no SALT had stepped foot in the place for a month prior to the FOI request. So it was very under-resourced and for anything quantified on DS's statement, it would all have to be bought in to guarantee he'd get the provision.

I also visited the LA school with a totally open mind and formed my own opinion and wrote a very business-like report. This report included the fact that the teacher in charge stated to me that they had not received all the reports to DS's Statement and were therefore totally unaware as to the severity of DS's dyslexia and related anxiety. So they had agreed to take him based on seeing only one out of the eleven appendices my DS has to his Statement!!! (This is now the subject of a formal investigation by LGO.) I also asked the teacher in charge about their experience of dyslexia, pupils with dyslexia etc etc - of course she answered "none". So that all went in my report. The one thing I forgot to do was to get her to sign it - which she probably wouldn't have done anyway. But that didn't matter because the judge asked her during the hearing if she had answered those questions on my report herself, and of course she said "yes". So both the FOI and the teacher at the LA showed the school couldn't meet need so why were we at Tribunal?

One of my EPs also went into LA school and assessed it to see if it could meet need - it couldn't

So we just built a very strong case that the LA school couldn't meet need. I have heard of people who also sent in an EP to the indie school to determine if it could meet need - but we didn't have to do that

It was a very painstaking lengthy process as my LA do not believe dyslexia exists (they told the judge that) and they are a very nasty vindictive unprofessional bunch of people.

But we got there in the end. Tribunal judge ruled that LA school could not meet need because a) they could not meet the severity of his dyslexia and b) he is so complex with other needs that the LA school would not be able meet all those needs anyway. We also built the case that even if school could meet need, LA school would cost more then indie school. But because LA school couldn't meet need, costs didn't even come into it.

You need hard evidence for this but it can be done. Must LAs will fight you to the bitter death if you want indie ss, so you'll probably end up at Tribunal.

Hth and good luck

That's interesting and incredibly helpful. Ds's school has brought in a 'dyslexia teacher' for one hour per week to help ds, but she isn't actually qualified yet (although is working towards it). He also has 'his own' TA but she doesn't have any dyslexia experience.

His statement says that adults who work with him must have experience and understanding of his specific difficulties. However, when I asked the SENCo exactly what that meant, she said that all the staff could be considered that as they had all done a day's dyslexia awareness training (ha!) and had worked with other dyslexic children in the school.

I'm not sure how to insist that this isn't enough! I think the school and LA think they are providing loads! I know that the staff are sensitive to his needs and allow him to record his knowledge in ways other than writing, and differentiate all the work for him, but include him within the class setting as much as possible.

I just feel that the severity and complexity of his spld (as actually stated in the dyslexia asessment he had done by a specialist dyslexia teacher we see out of school) means that he would do far better in a setting with teachers who are trained and experienced with his type of need, and where there are fewer children allowing for more 1 to 1 and attention. The closer he gets to secondary school age, the more I feel that this is essential. However, it's getting the 'hard facts' to put in front of the LA rather than just 'this is what I feel'!

Yes my LA tried to do something similar by sending the HT of their proposed school on a 3-day "course" run by the LA on dyslexia (she went on the course just weeks before Tribunal). The HT was too busy to even complete the course - a fact my barrister had great fun in scorning during the hearing.

My barrister put in the working document before Tribunal that my DS needs 1 hour daily specialist input from a teacher with a post-grad qualification in dyslexia. This the LA would not agree to and they wanted it to be 1 hour daily with a "teacher". This was the deal-breaker for the indie ss because the Tribunal agreed that DS needed a teacher with post-grad qualifications. So with the Tribunal ordering that the teacher had to have post-grad qualification, it meant that LA school could not meet need.

It is most certainly hard facts backed up by professionals which will get you what your DC needs.

I was thinking we would probably need a barrister. Can I PM you for recommendations?

How did you prove that your ds needed daily 1 to 1 from a teacher with postgrad quals? This is exactly what I mean as when I suggested to the LA that I thought ds needed this, they just laughed and said that if the teacher/ta was aware of ds's needs and sensitive then that was enough! How do I PROVE that it isn't?

Yes of course you can PM me.

Two indie EPs recommended daily post-grad help - this inc one of this country's leading experts on dyslexia.

Of course the LA laughed at it, but more importantly, the Judge took it very very seriously and agreed with my experts.

I also had documented evidence of failure to progress when I took my DS out of school to home ed. I sent him (at great cost!) for one day a week to a specialist dyslexia centre - the teachers there (all with post-grad qualifications) wrote very clear reports about how he needed daily help and that weekly was not enough. The Judge took their comments into a great deal of account - that he'd already had a year of intense weekly help but it still hadn't helped.