How can I help DD2 - what would you do?

[lougle]

DD2 is struggling with maths.

She's been doing 'bridging through 10', but clearly doesn't understand what she's doing when she bridges to 10. She plucks numbers out of the air. She said 'It was really tricky and I couldn't have help from because I've had too much help already. I've got another page to do in class and that's even trickier.'

I found a bridging through 10 game on the internet, which she enjoyed (because the spaceman jumps towards the rocket, then the rocket flies off into space) but she was clearly guessing the numbers.

I asked her today whether she'd done more bridging through 10 and she said:

'No. Yesterday we were 'trying to decide the right strategy to use.'
Me: 'Ok, what was the problem you were doing?'
DD2: 'There was no problem.'
Me: 'Sorry, DD2, I mean 'what sums were you doing.'
DD2: 'Starting with 9 and adding different numbers, or starting with different numbers and adding 9.'
Me: 'Ok, how did that go?'
DD2: 'A bit easier - I did have help from quite a lot. I got them all wrong though.'
Me: 'Oh, why?'
DD2: 'Well I was trying to decide which club is the best: Mrs H (ELSA) or Dragonflies. But it's a very tricky decision, so it was very difficult. But I did think about it quietly.'
Me: 'Weren't you meant to be doing maths?'
DD2: 'Yes, but the decision was tricky and it took a long time to think about.'
Me: 'Right What did you decide?'
DD2: 'I didn't decide, it was too tricky.'

So, I said to the SENCO that she's struggling, I don't think she gets the concepts and she's an explicit learner, so should I be breaking it all down and try to teach her it at home, or let the teacher get on with it in class?

The SENCO said not to teach her at home because it may confuse her and the teacher knows where DD2 is 'at' with it, plus she worries that it might create more pressure. She commented that 'DD2 isn't even there, is she' when I relayed my conversation this morning.

My issue is that DD2 knows her number bonds to 10. She doesn't know how that connects to bridging through 10. She doesn't know what she's doing. Or why she's doing it.

DD2 will not learn by exposure and osmosis!

So...what do I do? Sit back and allow her to stagnate? She's going to really struggle.

I imagine she knows full well that 29 is more than 28, but only registered that the answer she first gave was wrong. I bet she didn't register any of the other language information about your hand being small and what that MEANT and why it was in any way relevant to the answer she was supposed to give.

of course. I'm crap at this.

Lougle You're not 'crap' at this at all. You're 'new' at this.

And you understood what I said which is more than any SENCO I have met has.

I just wanted to add that Dd3 also struggles with some concepts in maths mainly place value.

Your comment about learning by osmosis is about what I think too. Maybe some children do learn like that but Dd3 definitely doesnt!

If you can teach some strategies at home then go for it. Personally it doesnt work well for us because Dd3 is very much home is home and school is school.

I agree about using lego or sweets to help but be mindfull of them being many different colours as that can confuse things even more.

Good luck

polter I keep being told that Dd3 will have to do homework when she goes to secondary school!!

I find it very worrying that she could face being punished because she cant work at home.

She is often frightened at the weekends because she has homework that she cant tackle. I dont know what she thinks is going to happen to her, she cant tell me

Good idea, poor lougle I am always hijacking her threads

Sorry lougle.

www.scholastic.com/teachers/top-teaching/2013/12/using-lego-build-math-concepts

Oh lougle, snap! (Yet again)

Dd2 is also crashing in maths - finished year 1 with a 2a for maths, and is now apparently working (or not) over a year behind and has been moved into 'a lower' (for that read lowest) group. Had a meeting with her teacher who had the grace to look a little sheepish about it all and said that she thinks dd2 has been covering up the gaps in her knowledge a little more efficiently than she (the teacher) had realised.

I have numicon on order, and have dd2 doing 10 minutes a day after school on the Primary Maths app or another one (Komodo - subscription, but got it heavily reduced with a discount code). So far, so good, but from what dd2's teacher said dd2 has now been heavily underscored - apparently they are working on counting in 10s in dd2's group currently - i know dd2 can do this (and she would never have achieved a 2a without being able to do it) so who knows what is goin on there. And I can't challenge the recent group move without looking like a parent bristling at the thought that their child is in the lowest group... Ho hum. All part if life's rich tapestry, and all that.

So, upshot of it all is: the only chd I am not doing each intervention work with is dd1. Now there's irony for you

How's that babe?

Mine's still not talking.....

Though imitating

Hmm, this is all making me think a lot. Ds is in yr 2 in special school so he's not getting left behind his classmates.

The pace is too slow for him but no-one would mistake his understanding difficulties or language issues.

I'm complaining because he has been given a 1a - 1c in maths because he is capable of being higher but in truth, if he was in mainstream he WOULD have been given higher but it woukdn't be an accurate reflection of where his is.

The thing is, the levels are going. So we're not going to be able to compare our children with themselves, their peers, or each other. Isn't that convenient for the SN system where you have to prove that your child isn't making adequate progress?

Btw...please do discuss on this thread - I love threads that meander through different issues that interlink and don't see it as hijacking at all.

I've just got DD1's AR documents through, Star.

English Reading P7.8
Writing P6.8
S & L 1a/1c

Maths Shape and Space P8
Number 1c
Using and Applying 1b

She's year 3.

Her End of Key Stage targets (year 6) are 2c for reading, 1a for writing, 2a for speech and language, 1c for Shape and Space, 2a for Number and 2c for Using and Applying.

Oh that's great, thank you zzzzz.

An in the same boat here with dd2, she's bright and good at recognising concepts but the teaching at school is not getting her anywhere. I am looking at interventions for home now that she's finished private SALT. Can someone explain how numicon works and why it's so effective?

Thanks!

I didn't realise levels were going... How will progress mapped?

Numicon is a system that uses grids to represent numbers, Handy.

A 1 is a single square with a hole in it (the hole is so that pegs can be used with it).

A 2 is two squares with holes next to one another

A 3 is 3 squares with holes in an L shape.

A 4 is 4 squares in a square shape.

So....there is a point to my rambling....

A 5 is like a 4, but with an extra square on the right hand side, so a column of 2 squares next to a column of 3 squares.

It works because you can see that to make up the '5' numicon, you can either use 5 '1' numicons, or 1 '1' numicon and a '4' numicon, or 1 '3' and 2 '1' numicons, or 1 '2' numicon and 1 '3' numicon.

Because they're all consistent in proportion, they can overlay to see the patterns, etc.

Levels are going completely in the National Curriculum. The curriculum, as is, is going - there will be no National Curriculum from September. Each school will decide on their own curriculum, with just 4 'core' subjects - Maths, English, Science and History. Everything else will be discretionary and optional.

In terms of measuring progress, each school will be able to measure and determine progress as they see fit. There will be no standardisation by the Government.

It's possible that some LAs will suggest frameworks, I guess, and clusters of schools may decide to formulate assessment standards and benchmark against those with each other, but no-one is going to be able to objectively say 'She's only a 2a when you'd expect a child of her age to be a 4b' any more.

So how are schools going to rate their performance against each other to compete for the affluent kids or whatever nonsense happens now.

How are Ofsted going to judge schools attainment levels? How are parents?

I do think levels are largely meaningless tbh, but it is still a 'system' you can use to hang your evidence onto iyswim.