Reposting from chat. Please help!

[Faverolles]

Ds2 is 8, being assessed for possible ASD. He's fine at school, but violent and aggressive at home.
We have some times when things are relatively calm, and we feel that we know what we're doing, then we have weeks like this week, which are absolute hell on earth, and drive us to near breaking point.
I don't know if it's a normal back to school thing, but every evening this week, we've (all the rest of the family - me, dh, ds1, dd and ds3) been threatened, punched, slapped, bitten, spat at, sworn at, insulted constantly.
I can't cope. I know he'll calm down a bit at some point, we'll still have this behaviour, but not as intensely. But for now, the whole family is struggling.
We've explained to the older dc (13 and 11) that they need to back off from ds2, when he's feeling angry, he needs space.
Ds1 in particular seems to think that we are favouring ds2 because he gets more time with us, but this week he has only had more time because he has been wound up to the point of being a danger to himself and the others, and one of us has to help him calm down (he usually ends up sobbing that we should just kill him) and basically supervise him.
Ds1 cannot resist winding him up, he doesn't seem able to back off, so we have more outbursts than we should probably have.
I don't want ds1 and dd to feel responsible, but I want them to understand that how they react to him makes a huge difference to the severity of ds2's behaviour - is this unreasonable of me to expect this? (Really, I genuinely want to know!)

Dh and I are relatively new to this, it's only been a few months that we have allowed ourselves to see that there is a problem, and not a naughty child/crap parent situation.
There isn't really anyone in RL who gets what's going on, mostly they think we're soft on him(we're not), or suggest that we get really cross with him (like we don't do that already, but it doesn't work and makes the situation worse)
He has been referred to CAMHS, but that could take months.

We have noticed that we can do practical things that have helped - putting a tent over his bed, giving him opportunities to tell us how he's feeling, and do something calm with him if he's feeling angry, not taking him to the supermarket etc.

This week is off the wall though. Please, please tell me what else I can do to help him. He's such a lovely little boy when he's not angry.


^ I posted the above in chat, I had a thread in here a while ago, but I've lost it.
I really need practical advice. I feel like our family could break up over this, and I don't want that to happen.

[Faverolles]

Poor boy's woken up feeling angry.
Not sure how to help him :(

[magso]

Usually keeping very calm, voice as low pitched as possible and frankly keeping out of ds way helps when he is agitated ( as he is frequently before and afterschool).

My ds (14 ASD/LD) has some sensory issues and benefits from specific stroking (hands and shoulders), but this is very individual. I wonder if its worth ruling out sensory issues by getting assessed by an (sensory specialised )OT? Ds (mostly a sensory seeker) likes ripping or chopping paper, fiddling with blutac (or other pliable material), popping bubble wrap and wrapping himself up tight in a blanket for instance. He also finds watching fish swim, bubbles rise (or the gloop in his 60s lamp) and sand timers calming. Our lives changed dramatically once ds had a Nintendo ds to keep his fingers busy and his visual system focused and engaged ( he doesn't do waiting or boredom). We let him watch TV in the mornings whilst he waits for his school bus ( SS) and that helps reduce his anxiety. I suppose the other thing we do is expect only the bare minimum in the mornings - get ready for school (toilet, wash, dress, eat, drink, teeth, put on shoes), as any extra can tip him into a meltdown. Organising his clothes and school bag are done the night before so he doesn't have to search for anything in the morning.

On writing this I realise how different life is now to a couple of years back for us- especially on school mornings. The changes have been gradual. Hope that gives you hope!

Your son probably has different needs to mine ( although I've listed some of ds likes in case it helps)- perhaps your son needs reduced sensory input like a quiet space to relax or ear defenders to reduce the sound around him.

Sounds like your long awaited appointment was a mixed bag- as often appointments are.

[Faverolles]

Thank you :)

We've already got mornings down to the bare bones, I dress ds3 after the school run and I have breakfast later.
Our goal is to get him out of the door by 8.40 without him getting angry. I'm getting better at it!

If he's spent the day at home, he's easier to manage, as I know what's triggered him. The worst times are when he's had a day at school and has no idea why he's angry, like last night.

When he's started to calm down he needs cuddles, but in the middle of a rage, if you touch him, he'll lash out. The difficulty is getting the older dc to understand that they need to stay out of his way.

[Faverolles]

Ds doesn't particularly like his teacher, and I've since found out that she has form for not being particularly good with dc with autism. I know she doesn't believe there is a problem with ds, as he shows no sign of stress at all at school.
We considered moving him, but he has some really good friends that he made years ago. If we moved him, I think he'd struggle to make new friends and other dc aren't always very tolerant of him.

[Faverolles]

Another thing I've noticed - when we're out, say at a restaurant or something, in a big group, ds tends to be very calm, appears to be enjoying himself, but from our point of view is unusually still and usually blows up at home.

If there's a crisis (like when dh had a stroke), he is very well behaved, family have commented on how good he is (where ds1 and dd go to pieces). I feel that he's not being deliberately well behaved, but he's so stressed by the situation that he goes into some sort of shutdown to get through it. The fireworks return when things are back to normal. Does that make sense, or is it showing that he can control himself when the chips are down! and I'm being manipulated by him?

[Faverolles]

If he gets a diagnosis, are they things that'll be looked into?

I've spoken to someone at the hospital, and we'll have an appointment within the next five weeks.
You know that feeling when you're pregnant, and going for the first scan, that feeling that they'll have a look and say "no, nothing in there but cake"
That's how I feel about this, that we'll go and they'll say we're being ridiculous, he's just a boy, needs to run around, and we need to up our game.
I'm scared that will actually happen, and we'll be left struggling.

[Faverolles]

I ordered some stress balls last night - ds is keen to give them a go.

Tonight I'm going to give him a stack of paper to rip into bits so he can chuck it around.
Unfortunately dh is out tonight, so it may end up a late night free for all where anything goes!

I'd sort of hoped that with a diagnosis came a team of people swooping in to make things better! I'm sure it'll be a learning curve for us all!

[OneInEight]

Your comment about your son's teacher reminds me of a parent evening's we had for ds2 when he was in year 4. His brother had been having meltdowns at school and his teacher had raised concerns about social problems as well so the first thing we asked was if there were any similar concerns about ds2. The answer came back no he was fine but she then spent the rest of the appointment detailing how he was uncooperative, didn't get on with lots of the children, etc , etc. I think it was just a week after this he had his first meltdown at school. He was definitely not fine!

The direct help a diagnosis has brought was a 2 hour session on what is autism - so not exactly a lot. Indirectly, it has brought in support as it has helped us get a statement for the boys although a diagnosis alone is not sufficient grounds for this - the LA want evidence of significant behavioural or academic problems as well. It has also brought us help from social services - but again help has come because of the behavioural problems - running away and physical violence - rather than a diagnosis.

[Faverolles]

What sort of help can you get for physical violence?
Tbh, that's the scary thing about this (well, one of the scary things), he tends to lose it very quickly and lashes out at us all. He tried to punch his toddler brother on the head last night - luckily we're quite on the ball, so managed to stop it.
To stop him, we end up sometimes having to restrain him, ending up being bashed and bruised ourselves, but he mostly perceives this as us hurting him.
I asked a friend (a psychiatric nurse) how to safely restrain him, and he told me that no HCP would be able to advise us, as it takes 4 people to safely do it. He advised that we carry on as we are, and we are protected by the fact that we have been completely open and honest about what's going on, and we have been actively looking for help for his behaviour.

Ds2 hates being restrained, and it really fires him up, but on occasion we feel we have no choice for a short time, as he can be a danger to us and the other dc.

[magso]

I don't know what help you can get for physical violence, despite often asking! Would social storys help? Ds knows violence is not tolerated but when he is in meltdown he has little awareness and can be a danger to anyone or thing near him, and most of all himself. Ds can seem to manage some stressful situations ( like the dentist- something that has taken many years), but will often loose it completely for no obvious reason immediately after. Telling him off only makes it worse. I think the control goes into delaying the meltdown, not in stopping it altogether. I see meltdowns more as a (almost) complete loss of control. Like you I have learnt to get him away from danger (or visa versa - get others out of his exploding zone), at these times, but you are right it is hard to anticipate trouble when you have not been at school with him to see what is causing the stress in the first place. His Salt did some observations in class and that through up some helpful information. Ds also hates being restrained and its a sure fire way to go from minor to major distress. He is better being 'shepherded' into a safe zone, but that is not always possible when lots of others are around, so sometimes restraint is needed. Ds is bigger now and frankly I can no longer retrain him when he puts himself in danger and he is learning from this!!
Ds school are a SS so should understand better, but a few teachers are 'old school' and frankly make things worse for ds. Shouting at him for instance or saying too much too fast.
We got some parenting help from Cahms but it was of limited help, as they only interacted with us ( not school). The most useful thing that was suggested and has helped is to think of DH (and he of me) as behaviour consultants/supporters for one another. We are going to a special new service for children with challenging behaviour soon, so if I learn anything I'll let you know!

[Faverolles]

Thankyou :)

I'm expecting trouble tonight.
He didn't do his homework this weekend (we didn't bring it up after the awful week, settling back into school I suppose). The HT said not to worry about it.
Ds came out today fuming, the teacher made him do his homework and miss out on something he'd been looking forward to.
With my other dc, it would be a case of "well, do your hw on time in future". With ds2, I feel like crying, because I know it's a matter of time before he blows up and I'm alone with the dc tonight.
I don't know whether to say something, or just accept that it's our fault that we didn't encourage homework when he was supposed to do it.

[Ineedmorepatience]

I agree with polter I started to email the HT because I didnt feel that verbal agreements were being kept too.

I have emailed him tonight and text the SENCO after an incident this afternoon.

Create a papertrail no matter how nice you think they are

[Faverolles]

I'll talk to the ht tomorrow again.
That's a good idea to email everything, thanks for that!

Tonight hasn't gone too badly, ds1 was skypeing friends, so we've barely seen him tonight.
Ds2 has been edgy and borderline aggressive all evening, but because ds1 wasn't there we've managed to avoid anything too tricky.
He's now quiet in bed. I don't imagine for one minute that he's asleep yet, but he's quiet!

[Faverolles]

He's not going to be given homework for the time being.
I feel like a complete nuisance making a fuss over nothing!

[OneInEight]

You're not making a fuss over nothing!!! There was a thread a week or so ago on being a PITA parent - the general conclusion was that as soon as needs were met you did not have to be one anymore.

[Faverolles]

Ugh, me again, sorry!

Bit of an AIBU here - think I might have to pick my battles.
So ds isn't going to have homework for the time being (not exactly what I asked for, but ok). His teacher handed out everyone's homework, and announced to ds (and the rest of his table and presumably the rest of the room) that I'd asked for him not to have hw as it's too overwhelming and makes him angry (ds couldn't remember the exact wording, but that's the gist of it). Ds says he doesn't care, but I care that there's one more thing handled crappily with no reason behind it. In ds's position, I would have felt humiliated and stupid.

I may be being over sensitive about this, so I'm not going to tackle her about it unless you think it's a battle worth fighting.

The other thing that happened today is that over the week, ds has lost 1 minute of golden time. He was reminded today, but didn't know why he'd lost it. He asked the teacher who told him to think very carefully, but still didn't tell him!
FFS, she knows he possibly has ASD, it's not my problem that she doesn't believe me, but the boy sat there and asked her why he lost a minute, and she wouldn't tell him!

I'm aware that I may be being told how it happened in a different way from it actually happening, but he tends to be pretty honest about how his day has gone.

I'm so pissed off on his behalf (even though tonight he seems too tired to care).

[Skylar123]

I would be annoyed too if I was in your shoes Can you clarify your concerns with the school on Monday ? I would and then I would tell then why it is unacceptable behaviour. Re the homework thing...are they taking the piss?

[Skylar123]

Having said that I would try to put it to the back of your mind if you can and deal with it on Monday , these things can eat away at you and it's not healthy .
I had the school totally dismiss my Ds's difficulties for a long time they are eating there words now, your day will come x