Somebody please help me im completely at a loss

[CrazyHneedsSleep]

Its 4.21am Ds5 is still awake his meds (melatonin 40mg) have stopped working again , he has had 2 hours sleep since Sunday and yet is wide awake and full of beans

I'm taking him to the doctors after school as I make a point of sending him in even with no sleep as he isn't tired etc when he goes in and his teacher doesn't believe me when I tell her .

I'll be lucky to get my Doctor to up his dose or anything else as the dosage was only changed at the end of November .

Dd has suspected As/ADHD and is in a very strict bed time routine .
He just can't sleep and when I ask him why he just says 'It won't stop' or 'my head won't shut up'

Is their a different medication we could try as this one just keeps stopping working which is a lot of stress for me & especially Ds .

On another note are their any other forms of Melatonin other than tablets as it ridiculously hard to get him to swallow 2 tablets not that he should have to at such a young age

Ds not Dd

Have you tried some relaxation techs at bedtime? Things like visualisation?

Have a long hard look at his diet ... eg, my ds goes very hyper after anything with tomatoes.

We have found relaxation/meditation exercises and soothing music both help. Also, keep him away from any screens for at least an hour prior to bedtime.

Ds has liquid melatonin, but you can't get slow release melatonin in the liquid form. My friend, whose ds has horrendous sleep problems said things improved with the liquid (maybe it absorbs better?) over the tablets.

We have had night recently where ds has been awake from 10 onwards - it is a killer, and in those instances, melatonin doesn't seem to work.

I'm afraid I have no answers but tons of sympathy.

Thanks everybody I have tried many different techniques but none seem to fit my Ds iyswim .

I'll have a look at those books thanks .

He finally went to sleep at 5.30 and he was not happy about having to go to school .

His routine bath/wind down/bed works 99.9% of the time as long as the meds work as well

With ds I find that when really stressed his melatonin or anything else just doesn't work.

Particularly at the start of the term. Maybe after a few days back at school, he will settle?

Melatonin doesn't work for everyone .

I've had to go with a multi-pronged approach over the years and even then it only helps, doesn't cure iykiwm. Life is easier since DS started homeschool as his anxieties are significantly reduced though.

Try:-:-

1. Magnesium - 3 months of epsom baths salts at night in the bath for the claming effect. You need a full teacup full per bath so buy in bulk.

Or a magnesium & zinc diet supplement (cheaper!)

1. Weighted blanket is he thrashes about a lot when he does sleep. It has to be 10% bodyweight + 1lb.

1. Exercise - wear the booger out physically. We used to do an hour in the park running around before school.

1. Diet - Look at the Gap diet or the Brain food Plan books for ideas.

1. Cranial osteopathy - can help in some cases.

1. Get to grips with anything causing anxiety - keep a diary and you may notice over time patterns such as he's always worst on Sunday nights etc. Once you know the anxiety triggers then you can tackle em one by one via CBT, alt therapies etc, etc. Keep an eye out that school are actually using any aids such as visual timetables that they are supposed to, warn you of staff changes, trips etc in good time etc.

1. Routine - having a really strict routine to deal with night time waking helps you if nothing else. I used to lay out "permitted toys" for DS to play with such as lego so he could keep himself occupied at 4 am without bugging me till I lost the plot with him out of frustration. It's a form of containment to stop yourself snapping at him in the middle of the night, so upsetting him, so making the anxiety worse, so making the sleep problem escalate. Audio books are useful for this too. Nowadays he plays on his DS at silly o'clock, and knows not to nag me till I've had my 6 am coffee.

1. I kept being told lavender oil helps, it does some people but mandarin oil is even more relaxing. Use a little with a cup of white vinegar instead of fabric conditioner when you wash his bedding.

1. Whale music - again helps some people but not DS get off to sleep.

10. Self-hypnosis techniques work for my Mum.

Don't be ashamed to take a midday nap for yourself if the opportunity arises as sleep deprivation is a killer on YOUR mh long term.

It is so well worth the wait for a sleep clinic appointment if you can get one as they can prescribe other drugs such as clonidine or rec a series of exercises etc. Do keep a sleep diary while you are waiting for the appointment though as it really helps them to help you.

Sending you a cyber hug!

Thanks boc I'll give them a try

I doubt my gp or the children's mh specialist will refer me to a sleep specialist as they both seem to think I'm making it all up

D often needs something to concentrate on, to stop her brain whirling. So odd as it seems, there are many nights that we are doing hard maths sheets or word searches in bed with her, or even just plain old colouring in of detailed pictures together for 20 minutes can help too. Something that takes concentration to switch off other things, and then she seems much better able to settle.

I,m not convinced the melatonin does anything for her, dozol on the nights she has a pain rather than cal pol, or teetha granules, realhot chocolate, sleepy spray in her room, lavender baths, .....all can help. Rubbing her back while we read a story, she nearly always has an audio book on the iPod after we leave her too. And that is where following a pretty strict routine.

In our case, the problems are about settling down to sleep, once she is asleep she doesn't tend to wake until morning (might. Be early, anytime from 6am on, but it is actually morning).

If it helps a 3 month sleep diary was what FINALLY got me an appointment at the sleep clinic when DS was 8. I got to the point where if I'd been asked about lavender oil and our bed time routine one more time I'd have knocked someone out! Even had a SW who insisted on turning up when I was in the middle of the bedtime wind down for months on end and refused to accept that if he waltzed in without knocking when DS was in the bath then DS would not sleep that night at all, and that his behavior the next day at school was then awful because of it. This was AFTER DS was diagnosed!

On the not being believed front you really have my sympathy! Keep a diary.

I would second the weighted blanket - my son loves his and it does help to settle him (doesn't stop his mind whirring though)
Sorry can't be more helpful. Good luck

Things that help ds sleep.

1. His bedroom is painted in a colour of his choice (he doesn't see colour in the same way we do and some colours are 'scary' or 'dark' to him)

1. He is afraid of the dark, so a night light.

1. I got one of these www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/4321125.htm it has bubbles and changes colour and ds finds it quite relaxing to watch.

1. Ds has posters all over his bedroom walls (well calendar pictures of puppies and kittens) He is really interested in animals. They give him something to focus on, instead of worrying. He says they make him feel 'safe'.

1. Bedtime involves ds being allowed to go to his room and line up his pokemon cards on the floor for at least half an hour. Other times, he writes lists, he likes to order things in his mind, helps him relax.

1. If he really cannot sleep, its because he is worrying about the next school day and what will happen. So being able to look at a school timetable and knowing in advance helps.

1. Visualisation. When he cannot switch his brain off. We practised for years thinking of happy thoughts and he often needed examples of what happy thoughts were. You can set the scene of walking through a field filled with flowers, laying on the beach or whatever he finds happy etc, etc.

1. Breathing, slow, deep breathing. Trying to lay still and sending messages from your head all the way to your toes telling them to keep still, then back up to your head and sending a message to your foot and so on and on.

1. Making sure he has a bedtime snack and drink, then ignoring requests after this.

10. Asking him what will make him feel better at bedtime.

He has a ridiculously heavy feathered quilt though he prefers no blanket as he is a sweaty little thing .

he doesn't mither me when he goes to bed at his set time etc I usually start feeling bad at about 11pm when he is still wide awake so I try and get him in to my bed to sleep which does work sometimes .

His room is getting redone to his choice next week as apparently jungles (the theme) are for babies

I'm still not completely sold on him having a despicable me bedroom but if it helps them so be it

I did start a sleep diary for a while but then the meds started working so I forgot about it
I'll have another try

If he is saying his head won't stop, have you tried white noise? You can get white noise CDs. He may be helped by having something to drown out his own thoughts.

Ds tends to like a 'busy' bedroom, rather than what I would call 'calm', although it is very ordered and tidy, visually it is very busy. I think this helps him to focus on something else.

He has green walls and red duvet and red blind! (not what I would think 'relaxing'!) He has lots of different puppies and kitten posters smothering the walls (which he put up himself, in lines and an order he likes). Animals, especially cats and dogs are one of his three 'obsessions', along with pokemon and lines/patterns. He tends to feel 'safe' surrounded by his obsessions.

Does your ds have any obsessions? Maybe they could be incorporated into his room?

His first obsessions from around 6 months were Thomas the Tank and he went on to Jungle animals for a while they both lasted for 4 years .
His new obsession is Despicable Me , he can speak and sing in Minion & sometimes I have to remind him to use English instead of Minion

I'll try some white noise tonight as wasn't able to get him an appointment with the GP

Despicable Me is a great film and talking minion sounds fantastic!

I put up with ds's hideous colour scheme in his room and a ton of blu tak on the walls and endless facts about pokemon, as long as it helps him! A Despicable Me bedroom sounds fine

Oh I thought it was just going to be getting some of the big wall stickers but Ds has outlined all the exact details etc such as what colour Grus house is
He is a little eccentric

Sounds perfect! and at least if he has told you exactly what he wants, you might stand a chance of him actually doing some sleeping in it!

Hope he and you get some sleep soon, lack of sleep is a nightmare, pardon the pun

Yes it really is a nightmare

Thanks [smile[

Oops can tell i need sleep

Oops can tell i need sleep

If he needs noise, what about either music or audiobooks? Dd used to listen to classical music for a while, then moved to the soundtrack from slum dog millilitre, and has listened to various audiobooks now for a couple of years, occasionally changing it herself on the iPod but usually just letting it play away.

We find the nights she is uptight, are the nights we need to do a maths sheet or something else to concentrate her brain into one thing so it drowns out stressy thoughts.

There are other medications. Ds also used to be awake all hours of the night. He now takes a small dose of Alimemazine. Whilst you may have to fall on a sympathetic GP, it has been brilliant for him. He is now rested and sleeps well. You really only need tiny amount because it is quite a serious medication, but if you get the dose right it works well. The difference in all our lives has been major.