Sorry, another baby ds question from Starlight.

[StarlightMcKingsThree]

How do I make him eat?

I just realised (yeah I know) that he has hardly eaten anything for about 4 weeks. He'll have a few spoonfuls of porridge once or twice a day but only if we've poured half the contents of our sugar bowl in it. Everything else is refused or spat out. He's 18 months.

He's supposedly been referred to a paediatrician and I'll check that went through okay next week, but for the time being anyone got any ideas?

Today I mashed a teeny bit of carrot and hid it in his sugar porridge but he spotted it and then refused to eat at all.

He asks for milk by saying 'Ne' and waving his tommee tippee cup at me but no withholding of that will make him eat.

Any clues?

Tricky, Star.

If he was younger I'd say 'go with' but 18 months..he should be eating. Is it 'normal' for him to reject food? Could he be teething? Is he otherwise well?

I think questions I'd be asking, if it were me:

1.Does he do better with baby-led weaning style - soft but holdable foods shoved down on his tray, let him get on with it?
a) I suggest it because I wonder if there is a texture issue?
b) Could he have an aversion to having something put in his mouth by adults?
c) Does he hate spoons, etc.

1. Does he willingly take non-meals, so rice cakes, etc?

again, I'm thinking textures?

1. Does he take cold/hot foods easier? Have you experimented with the temperature?

1. Is he losing weight? I don't mean by weighing, but rather are his clothes looser than normal?

1. Is his bladder/bowel function ok? Weeing and pooing as normal? Any signs of dehydration?

1. Are you leaving a big gap between milk and food? This can work both ways - either too much gap so starving and it's just frustrating for the baby because it's too much work. Or not enough gap because they're still full.

That's my teaching you to suck eggs done for now

Oh...last thing. Is there any food stuff he's really, really motivated by, that you could use to reinforce more suitable foods? ie. one spoon of food, one chocolate button...ABA

You know what Lougle. I never thought I'd say it but there ain't NO way that I've figured to motivate him to do as I want.

But you've a point about looking at the principles of ABA, at least at the data-collection side. Perhaps I can record his consumption behaviours and then analyse thing. He'll eat sugary oat bars sometimes but not consistently.

FWIW he IS teething. They are ALL coming in together. Poor mite.

It'll be the teething then. DD1 was dreadful. I remember phoning a paed who was a member of our church on Christmas Day at 10pm and saying 'She's had max dose of calpol, max ibuprofen, teething powders, bonjella...is there anything else I can do?' 'He said 'no, sorry.' It was grim.

DD1 was the same re. motivation. There was nothing that would stop her. Really nothing. Those techniques they tell you about 'oh if she's running away, say 'Bye then' and walk in the opposite direction.' She would just say 'byeee' and wave, then keep running away.

Nothing worked. At all. The only thing that works consistently now, is the threat of writing in her home school book. For some reason she hates the thought of her teachers being sad with her. She'll do anything to stop me writing in her book.

Would he put something very cold in his mouth? Could you freeze some apple puree or something into an ice pop?

Nothing. he won't put anything in his mouth.

I think food intake is the ultimate self-control. You can make children do most things except poo, wee and eat if they don't want to I think.

But yes. It is like that. Calpol and ibroprofen. Bottles of the stuff. Really need to check how much is too much (we don't overdose in 24 hours but no idea how many consecutive 24 hours is sensible). Whinge Whinge Whinge.

Stupid me thought it was mostly hunger, plus constipation from a porridge and milk diet.

Forgive me if this is a stupid suggestion but when bluechick has teeth coming through she seems to like cous cous.

It's small enough to be easy to swallow but when done 'al dente' it's quite granular so seems to give some relief. You could always add sugar!

Also you could cook it in milk to fool him!

Good luck, it's so soul destroying when they won't eat.

Rusks (aka 'food of the Gods )?
Frozen strawberries or bananas?
Rice pudding?
Semolina?
Fried mashed banana (fry in butter with demorara sugar until sticky and brown, add some natural yoghurt in the bowl...make sure it's cooled down before he eats it though!)?

you can make most children do most things except for your dd1 obviously - lol

He's hard work. Harder than the others I think. Perhaps because he is 'as well' as the others though.

He's also the funniest little thing EVER.

Oh yes, DD1 was.

I think the day I realised DD1 would do exactly as she pleased (well there were a few of those...) were:

-One day, she was trying to poke her fingers in a fan. I was absolutely scared and out of my mouth came 'DD1, if you do that I'll smack your bottom.' She replied 'Smack, smack ' as she smacked her leg and put her fingers towards the blade.

-When her LD nurse tried to put her on the naughty step. She thought it was a hilarious game and he was counting to 30, then letting her go. She'd come straight in and hit someone, so that he had to put her there again. I knew she'd won when he didn't stop counting at 30 and carried on to 120. She had far more stamina than him.

-When, the next week, he came to the door and I said 'DD1, it's x', and she came to the door and said 'Hello X, come in ' The look on her face was sooo telling. She wiped the floor with him

Yet, she is an absolute angel at school, and our SW said 'It made my wonder why she's at SS'. I had videoed her behaviour at home, so fortunately it didn't sway him.

oh, sympathy Star. I've had/going through this with ds too (really must get these babies together - they are clearly in sync anyway!)

my ds will eat bananas though. and cereal (cornflakes soaked in juice - leftover from him being dairy free).

and anythign with sugar in it. he had a ball over Christmas as we had a housefull, and he charmed loads of crap out of doting elder siblings/relatives.

it does sound as though teeth might be the issue - dd2 teethed all at once (although younger - about 10 months old), and whinged for weeks. she really was the most miserable baby ever, and I thought it was just her nature (she was clingy too, both before and after the teething), and then one day she yelled extra loud and wide, and I saw 6 new molars which had suddenly appeared! she went right off food while all that was going on...

my ds was off food in a big way (he is limited in what he eats now, but the quantity is ok) in October/November. He seemed mildly off-colour, but in hindsight I think he must have been quite poorly, poor boy. He ate barely a thing for weeks, and survived on extra feeds through the night

he has just started with his next round of teething, as tonight when brushing he teeth (which he loves), he was quite stroppy, and seemed sensitive/pulled away. so I expect he will be off his food again very soon.

anyway, I'm waffling. I have no idea what to do.

Oh no, I'm such a bad mother. Teeth need cleaning. Never occurred to me. Perhaps he'll like the pressure of a toothbrush.

He has molars galore. In fact I think they really ARE ALL coming in.

He got his front 4 very late, about 3 months ago, and the next ones each side haven't come through yet but all the back ones seem to be. When I stuck my finger in there it felt like shingle.

But yes to getting our two together. Let's try it before the start school, as they are half way there (August born?)

nooooo, don't say that. it cannot be only 2 more years until ds starts school - he is a tiny (erm, well, actually hefty!) little baby (hmmm, actually marauding toddler ) still! (July born, so yes, sadly, he will be off to school far too soon).

't-ttthhhhh' remains ds' only word, so we are big on teeth cleaning in this household . and he's the only one of my 3 that hasn't screamed the place down at the merest thought of any hygiene procedure (he even enjoys baths ) so I am enjoying the novelty of not having to wrestle him!

ds screams as if tortured should the slightest drop of water touch his skin anywhere. occasionally it is necessary to dunk him in the bath, and tomorrow I have to de-nit with the whole shampoo shenanigans.

No barber will touch him or his beehive hair as he makes it quite clear what he thinks about any attempt. I have tried myself but made such a mess of it due to the violent response.

He sits in his highchair at the table refusing to eat, watching big DS carefully and imitating all of his actions. Today ds sucked up a piece of spaghetti. Baby DS started making sucking noises so I seized my chance and gave him one strand of spaghetti. Baby ds sucked it up, then screamed and let it drop out of his mouth before swiping it to the floor.

No, he doesn't zzzzz. In fact he is very reliable to the extent that I am less paranoid about what he plays with or the older kids putting their toys away.

He rarely puts anything in his mouth ever, except his fingers and when I am brave enough, my breasts.

oh, I had water-avoiders (dd1 still is, to an extent). it is wearing.

it is deep-clean bath day here tomorrow too, for the reluctant ones. ds will scream too, but only when I take him out of the bath.

ds won't put anythign not on his current 'ok' list anywhere near his mouth - he will pick it up off the plate and casually drop it all on the floor... he is also good at raising a disdainful eyebrow and making a gagging noise if whatever I serve up is not to his liking...

Thank zzzzz. They're all good ideas, though I know currently, no foodstuff would stay within reach before ending up on the floor. He refuses to touch or engage with anything.

He HAS BEEN eating previously. From about 8 months to 14 months or so he ate loads and a variety, but he started to get fussy and demand sugary things only and now he only wants milk with occasional porridge.

I even struggle getting calpol in him and have to tip his head back and syringe it down his throat.

I'll definitely save those ideas for if we enter any recovery period and he starts to show some interest though zzzzz, they sound fun, especially when the weather improves and we can do it OUTSIDE!!!!

Sorry this might sound stupid , but could you maybe take him to dentist to have them check his teeth out , just cause what you said sounded like he was in loads of pain , maybe he has a tooth that's impacted in his gum.

Could you maybe go back to liquid foods , to see if he eat even a little of these custard , puree fruit , rice pudding , either cold , or warmed whatever your child prefers . Just till you know there nothing physically causing him not to eat.

They might also be able to give you few more ideas to help , with pain during teething , that if he's any more to come though .

That's a good point Homework. We're saving up to get his grade 4 lip tie lasered (as well as tongue tie) by a consultant dentist who we've asked to do a thorough mouth examination.

It can't be done on the NHS for goodness knows what reason.

sorry, meant to say, that compacted teeth is a potential side effect of lip tie apparently, though it hadn't occurred to me that it might be that.