Is there a cut off point for cp baby to learn to sit?

[holsandb]

I have a 10 month old gorgeous girl with cp. she has high tone in her arms and legs and low tone in her trunk. Her head control is better than it was and I can see some improvements in her core strength, but is there a point at which she cannot learn to sit? I'm really struggling generally with accepting her disability and really need to hear some good news stories...

I may be completely wrong but I had thought a child needs to be sitting unsupported by age 2 if likely to walk?

Sorry to hear you are struggling - it's extremely hard to deal with this hand you have been dealt I know. I have an older DD with mild CP and its such a waiting game.

Have you seen the big CP thread on this board? I'll try to bump it if not..

sneezecakesmum is very knowledgeable on these things - hopefully she'll be along soon..

itsnothing has the same info I have been given - a child who sits by 2 has a very good chance of walking. Bee didn't sit independently until she was well over a year, so 10 months is still quite young.

My DS -

He could not sit unsupported until he was around 5. He started standing and walking with aids around 6 and could walk (not brilliantly, but walk) unaiided at 8.

So every child is individual and sweeping statements such as needing to be sitting unsupported by 2 if likely to walk are not very helpful.

However OP it would be worth talking to your DD's physio about how you can help her and for whether she needs any special aids

Thanks for all your replies. I really do try hard to see her as an individual as all children are, and she is so happy most of the time. I don't really know what my preoccupation with milestones is - I should just be happy that she's happy. I've just gone back to work part time, so am having a lot of questions about what she's 'doing' which probably doesn't help...!

I really wasn't trying to be unhelpful starfishmummy but is just what I recall we were loosely told by paed when we started out on this path.

I'm delighted that you can give such a positive story and your son is doing so well

It's so hard when they're so young and you don't know what the future holds for their potential rate of development.

DD2 is 2.5 years, has asymmetric bilateral spastic CP and was definitely nowhere near sitting at 10 months. I think she was about 21 months for sitting iirc and soon after she started cruising furniture and is now (very unbalanced) walking independently up to 20 steps since about Oct (2 years, 4 months).

I share our success stories with work colleagues based on what's a success to us, not a success in NT milestones terms. My colleagues get it as I've explained her condition, so they're in a position of understanding to also celebrate 'our' not NT (milestone) successes. I heard my first 'Mum' at 2 years, 3 months and they bought doughnuts!

Come join us on the CP thread, we're a friendly bunch xx

Medical text books generally tell us that a child with physical disabilities who is going to sit unaided, walk etc will have done so by the age of seven.
OP please google 'MOVE international' if you haven't already, especially FAQ section. You may find the answers to some of your questions there.
The MOVE programme is used at the school where I work the results have all been very positive.

Hello holsandb
little summer has just turned 2 (she was a 27weeker), she sounds very similar to your dd at 10 months of age, good head control but high tone in all 4 limbs and weak core. I too struggled with accepting she has a disability. And this time last year at 1yr, 9montjs corrected she did hardly anything. Didn't roll, couldn't sit let alone crawl!! Her hand function was awkward to say the least. I was not in a good place.
I was obsessed with milestones, its completely natural, ask any mum with a cp or special needs baby and they will all say the same. I was so obsessed, could tell you every single milestone and by what age, even milestones That i never knew existed for dd1. It is hard, especially when you see babies of a similar age breezing through.
BUT it does get easier, we have long since passed certain milestones and I have now accepted that we are on our own milestones journey at our own pace. But it has taken a long while to accept and I still have my wobble days, but I promise it really does get easier.

DD rolled at 14 months sat at 17months and it has since become more reliable with less toppling. She still doesn't crawl or walk, but is now able to withstand 4 point position for longer. Progress is slow but it is happening.
10 months really is still young. Your little girl has lots of time.

sneezecake on the CP thread recommended me the best ever book, I constantly refer to it its called "teaching motor skills to children with cerebral palsy and similar motor disorders"
How is your physio? Have you been put on portage waiting list?

Me knowledgeable

Like everyone says all these milestones are very variable and every cp child is different which is why it's almost impossible to predict the future achievements.

Definitely get THE book summer recommends it is amazing. here Sitting with tight limbs and low trunk tone is always problematic and will depend a lot on whether stretching exercises keep the tightness under control. Long sitting (legs straight) is difficult for most 10 m old babies and they prefer the curled legs which provides a more stable base. So don't insist on legs out straight yet. That comes later.

There are various ways of sitting which aid stability. Cross legged sitting or side sitting is easier as you DD gets older. Corner chairs are available for straight leg sitting and providing stability. I would concentrate very hard on strengthening the trunk. Lots of tummy time(yes the dreaded tummy time!) placing her on all fours and in the bunny position, putting weight on her arms and shoulders, pushing up from tummy. Support her at all times until she is stable as CP children love to face plant into hard objects! If you can strengthen the trunk and neck this will allow the arms and legs to be less rigid as at the moment they are partly compensating for the weak trunk. Not entirely the crappy spasticity is a problem in itself.

Try for a little bouncing with you holding her to aim for some feedback through the feet/knees/hips. Not excessive and not in a door or jumperoo bouncer, they encourage bad movements. Physios hate them

I hope you are getting good advice and demonstrations from your physio? If not look into the Brainwave program. They were very good for us as they give you an individualised program and a top to toe assessment of your child rather that a bit here and there from all the different therapists.

An amazing number (probably the majority though I don't have any stats) of children with cP will learn to sit and walk so don't be disheartened. If you can talk to people in RL and meet other mums in the same situation. Isolation is the worse thing with disabilities. Scope have a befriending service though we've never used it.

Be like me, drink and don't panic

Oh sitting isn't just about arms and legs and trunk! it's about balance.

Try placing DD in a sitting position and sit behind her on the floor curled around her body so that she cannot fall. Falling at this stage would probably hurt and you can either go with the 'let her fall, she will learn from that and try to balance more next time' or 'don't let her fall as the fear and discomfort will put her off sitting altogether!' Both are valid but I would initially favour the don't fall and take if from there.

As you are sitting with her you can help her play with toys in her midline (hands together in the centre). Sitting like this she will be making tiny, important adjustments and learning to weight shift. If she doesn't learn to weight shift sitting will be almost impossible. Luckily most children will learn this but it's important you understand the importance of it.

Thank you all (again!) I have ordered that book, so hopefully will be able to get an understanding of her mobility as she gets older too.
I do have a good physio -actually the only professional I've met so far that I feel has an understanding of Erin and her amazingly strong and wilful personality as well as her difficulties but we have only just started down this long road and these first sessions have really been about them getting to know each other.
Thanks everydaysaschoolday, I will join the cp board because it is isolating isn't it?!
I started using a bumbo and my little one is really tiny so fits in it easily but was told not to use it because it isn't supportive and she arches her back (less so now). I have been given a tumbleform chair, but its taken her 2 months to get used to it and I need to get a table made for it because she really needs to be distracted. Not one for sitting quietly watching the world go by!
I feel reassured by all your feedback and whilst I will obviously carry on with all the exercises, I will maybe write our own milestone book!!!

We did that. A scrapbook with pictures and all those little inchstones

I hate and loathe the tumbleform chair because of its recline. I would try getting it as upright as your DD can tolerate. Try sitting back against your sofa at the same angle as the tumbleform chair in recline and try using your hands. Its damn near impossible. Frankly there are better seats out there but the T is the one the OTs and physios can get more easily.

They (physio and ot) have agreed its not great for her, but she is a little scrap of a thing (still under 6kg) and the other chairs don't go small enough... Getting her to eat is a whole other thread!

Our OT got us a Jenxx corner seat before DD was sitting unsupported. It came with a table so lots of fine motor skills work could also be done. Don't know if your DD is still too small for the Jenxx. It was good for a straight back, proper hip placement and correct posture. DD seemed quite comfortable in it (perhaps usually because food was on it's way if she was in the chair, lol).

www.livingmadeeasy.org.uk/children/corner-or-floor-sitting-chairs-p/corner-seat-0021455-2843-information.htm

Hi, DD is nearly 6 and has diplegia with arm involvement and low tone in her trunk.

You have been given some great advice already. The book at excellent and also Brainwave. At 10 months DD was nowhere near seating. We used a bumbo for short times. Brainwave suggested a wedge like this www.physioshop.co.uk/harley-11A-wedge-cushion.html
For tummy time and also to practise ring sitting. Sit them on the high end facing downhill with you sitting in front hold hips.
By the time she was about a year she could kind of sit in the right high chair. She could sit on the floor at around 2 but not very stable. She still uses a floor sitter at home to play on the floor just so she can play without having to worry about sitting.
She started commando crawling then bunny hopping about 3 as well as using a Kaye walker.
Lots of tummy time and core stuff like you find in the book is the key. Don't worry about getting a special table one o these works well for lots of things www.physioshop.co.uk/harley-11A-wedge-cushion.html
Come and join us in the CP thread there's lots of us at all different stages and abilities. But most of all don't forget to enjoy your DD and try not to worry about milestone or inch stones as we celebrate ;)

Sorry epic link fail the second one should be m.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/art/80202221/

We have a jenx seat too, got through OT. It is brilliant and we found the most fab little table sold by the futon company, its a laptop table and enables dd to play comfortably. But we got this when dd was about 16months.
before this we had a cushi tush seat, really reasonably priced from amazon providing a lot more support than bumbo as it has a higher back.

Our best baby chair was the babeco baby station but they don't make them any more

Sneezecakesmum - my little one hates being put down full stop! She lasted maybe 5 min at a time in a bumbo before I was told to stop using it, similar with the jumperoo (I wedged her in with blankets!) never accepted a traditional bouncer chair, and really hated the baby swing. I have tried the lot!! Did your little one manage sitting in the bebeco babystation with straight legs? I'm willing to try anything to be able to put her down even for a few minutes!!!

LO is my grandson so that gives me more time for research! Yes sat in the babeco baby station with lovely straight legs, really nice upright back that curls around the baby. Normally physios are not keen on ordinary baby seats but she was very impressed with it.

www.babycollection.co.uk/Babeco-The-Baby-Station/Babeco-Baby-Station-Beige-/i/NEBABYSE.htm

It's not made any more and we've sold ours. Maybe eBay?

For feeding the fisher price highchair was excellent when he was small. It's so difficult to get things right. A corner seat is good though or the squiggles system. Not much good for us as DGS is dyskinetic rather than spastic. You have to sit on a lot of frogs before you find your princely one!

www.babycollection.co.uk/Babeco-The-Baby-Station/Babeco-Baby-Station-Beige-/i/NEBABYSE.htm