Soiling

[RevoltInParadise]

My ds is seven and soils. He also still wets the bed every night. Right through night pants and pajamas and the sheet.

He used to wet everyday during reception. And during year one he would 'leak'. He still does this but either doesn't notice or doesn't care.we constantly tell him to change his pants. He will also quite happily stay in his night pants until we tell him to change. He will often soil these too.

For the night wetting we have tried lifting, alarms and I think the next step is medication. :( but I am not sure as when we went to the gp for his alarm review appointment she was more concerned about the soiling and him saying he can't feel it, so referred him to the quick access clinic.

The clinic said there was no issue with the nerve endings. We now have to do two days of monitored fluid in and out before a review appointment in four months. She also wants to refer him for counselling for the soiling as there is nothing wrong with the nerves.

But we have helped him wipe, regularly tell him off, encourage him to go, to wipe propyl, have tried ignoring it. Nothing seems to work.

So, any ideas? For a complete picture his brother Has ADHD and possible dx for asd. (Waiting for multi discipline team appointment). We thought he might have been dyslexic in year one but school did one of those 'unnamed child' multi meetings with someone who came into the school and they said no. But he can't even say the months of the year in order, struggles with the days of the week, can't say the alphabet etc but his reading is getting better.

Anyone have any advice on what could be going on here? Does any of it add up to anything as a wider picture that I should look at?

Happy to answer questions if you need a wider idea of what he is like.

Yes absorbent pants, sorry.

Hmm, sensory stuff. Interesting. Will have a look at that, thanks.

Re the weeing, he will go to the toilet, but then need to go again five minutes later? And the soiling isn't a lot, more liquids (sorry tmi) which made me think maybe impact ion? But he has always had softer poos and no sign of constipation. Plus clinic said they couldn't feel any.

Also forgot to mention he had an ultra sound for 'excessive passage of urine" in reception but it came up clear.

He does the bolt to the toilet at the last minute thing too.

Just the usual. Water, milk, squash. We are going to stop the squash though.

He does eat a lot of fruit. And loves crudités and cherry tomatoes and the like? Also loads of pickles and gherkins and pickled onions. He has very 'mediterainian' (sp.) tastes.

So, do the measuring of input and output with normal diet.

Then exclude say, acidic stuff and measure again? What about residual effects, how long should I exclude for before re measuring input/output?

Then repeat with milk? (But allow the acidic stuff back in?)

Sorry!

Ask them to send a stool sample of to see if he maybe lactose intolerant , your gp should be able to do this also , maybe if he tolerate it blood for celiac disease , in meanwhile keep a food diary and if he having lose stools , try just chicken and rice , then introduce other foods one at at time slowly given it at least two days to see the effect on his bowel and what if any foods are aggravating his condition .
Found out for myself that can't have any daily as aggravates my colitis .
Have friend whose baby has celic and ahe had difficult time with baby till found out , as has no control , over loose stools .
You gp and dietician at hospital should be able to help you with these test .
Hope this might help a little , kids get stressed too , which can affect there bowels , sorry that's all can really think of .
Please push your gp for a bit more help ,

Ds has the same problem, he used to 'leak' rather than fully wet himself, this has improved as he has got older. He still soils though, he is 9 and has never been fully 'clean'.

We have tried continence assessments, pretty useless really. Medication and CAMHS. Nothing has been of any use.

I cannot mess around with his diet, as it is extremely limited, which is probably the cause, so a vicious circle.

Not much help to you really, other than you are not alone.

My DS's soiling issues are still going on at 14yo. He has ASD and I truly believe his hypo (under) sensitivity is to blame. From 3 to 7/8 it was awful. The ASD meant that he had no social embarrassment about being smelly either, and would rather continue with his computer game etc than break off to go to the toilet. For us, medication made things worse. He could control it even less.

Since he was 8 or so he's been much better, only skid marks or slight soiling which he only seems to do at home, not at school. He'll take himself off to the toilet and change his pants as well, even if a bit late. No great solution, just time. I always try to explain that it would be better and quicker in the long run just to go to the toilet straight away, but although he says he agrees, it's all forgotten by the next time.

I was sorry cos I felt like I was bothering you and I am embarrassed at being so ignorant!

Re the sensitivity thing, he always screams like a limb is being chopped off at the smallest bump or knock. This could be a sensitivity thing. Or could be an over reaction to his overly, um, tactile older ADHD brother?

Lactose intolerance, hmm. My mother is/was and my nephew. Will see if gp will do a stool sample.

He also seems to not mind re the smell. I have to tell him, he doesn't seem to notice or care if he does. Then it is a hassle,as you say, to go and change. Has a tantrum about it. We too remind him it would be easier to just go to the loo.

Interesting re pickles and milk as triggers. I see a whole new dinner being cooked for him alone!

Will read up about celiac.

He does get eczema as well, so that points to intolerances too. He also has asthma mildly. He did get pinprick allergy tests when really young (under two, iirc) but we dont have access to any of those notes as they were in a different country another active has now retired.

I guess I am being paranoid and wondering if it is a spectrum thing, or a diet intolerance thing due to my oldest sons issues.

Thanks all for your advice!

When younger ds would talk about having no sensation associated with wanting to go and not realising until it 'popped out' (sorry too much info there!)

Ds only soils at home now too, which suggests to me he has some element of control, albeit maybe limited. He refuses to use the toilets in school and 'holds it' which I think makes the problem worse at home.

He also complains about it being painful (although he never appears constipated)

Medication made things worse for us too, just meant he soiled more often.

Ds is highly embarrassed by it and doesn't want to talk to anyone about it. I have resigned to just helping ds to deal with it when it happens.

Ha, where else can you talk poo!

It is so hard and will be hard work working out what it is, but I know indeed to crack on and get on with it. Damn. Life is hard as it is with the oldest. Now I will have him questioning why we are doing different things for the middle one and I try and shield the middle one from oldest as much as possible as oldest is just so blunt and can take something small andbe so nasty about it to him. We are constantly telling hints shush about the bed wetting as it is. I don't want him to say something at school about it and get the middle one teased. Sigh. Poor ds2. :(

Claw, yes!your first sentence. He's aide doesn't feel it. So gp freaked out and referred but clinic nixed that idea and referred him for counselling instead!

Ellen, quite!
Hence why I came here instead of the main boards as I knew you guys wouldunderstandandyouhave all been so helpful with ds1. :)

Quite Ellen

Revolt, It is difficult trying to juggle everything isnt it. For us, it got to the point where ds had so many difficulties and was seeing so many 'professionals' and appointments and assessments, I had to focus on the most severe/important and let the rest slide for the time being.

Ds has also started poo smearing recently, so no doubt something I will need to revist soon. Will be watching with interest for tips and ideas.

Yeah I am going to cut the squash tomorrow and crack ou the measuring jug so we can get that over and done with in the hols as it is only two days. Then I will focus on the caf/tac meeting for ds1 (no idea what that is about, what I need/how to prepare/what they will say as school are quite, ahem, difficult..and it is my first ever) , then I will settle dd into starting nursery (at the same school as ds's) then do her primary application, then I will start the diet changes for ds2. Oh, and then do my tax return. I am also starting a parenting course for kids with additional needs mid jab as well.

Gah! I think I might ask the gp for an iv caffeine drip while I am at it!

I am honestly in awe of all you guys. How the hell do you do it??

www.education.gov.uk/childrenandyoungpeople/strategy/integratedworking/a0068944/team-around-the-child-tac

Might be helpful

Oh wow! Thank you!will go have a read. I am confused as someone said it was a team of professionals but we have none except the school and the pear who diagnosed his ADHD. I think I started a thread on it. Anyway, blathering now, but that link looks great. Thanks!