At my wits end re DD

[GiveMeStrength2day]

[Apologies: I've put this in S/N Chat but received no response so thought I'd try here]
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I just don't know what to do. DD (6yo) has mild SEN (statemented for S&L/Communication problems) - she can speak and can understand though.

Her behaviour has got worse and worse over the past 18 months. I have begged for help from our specialist health visitor and paediatrician. DD has been seen for a few sessions with a behaviour specialist (except she's not going to give me the benefit of her wisdom until mid January).

For this past month DD's behaviour has been disgraceful. She will not take no for an answer. She is wilful and disobedient at home (not at school). I'm on edge all the time - it's like living with an untrained rottweiler, you just never know what is going to set her off. She screams at me and hits me and can be downright spiteful.

Today she has surpassed herself. Defiant and disobedient. She has also succeeded in terrifying our new rescue cat (when we have told her to leave the cat alone, he wants some space etc she refuses to do as she's asked) and now I feel guilty for homing him.

DH is furious and wants DD taken into care as he cannot cope any longer. I don't know what to do. We have NO support from anybody. Our neighbours are her godparents and yet they never offer to give us a break from her (they surely must hear the shouting).

Despite numerous chances to behave and despite the threat that Father Christmas won't come, nothing works. How can we now "reward" her with Christmas presents when despite the warnings she takes no notice. We have removed the presents (from other people) from under the tree. Even doing this, yes she got upset, still didn't convince her to do as she is told (all we wanted her to do at this stage was go to her room).

In a way, I hope to God there is something wrong with her because if there isn't I can't see any solution being offered.

It's awful

Sorry to hear you're going through a tough time.

A couple of years ago I attended a course on 'Managing behaviour in children with additional needs'. The most helpful thing about it was meeting other people who were also trying to cope with challenging behaviour. Please know that you are not alone.

DH and I don't often argue, but when we do, it's about parenting, and for a few years, most of the parenting disagreements we had were about how to manage the behaviour of DS2 (ADHD & Asperger's).

Parenting a child with additional needs / challenging behaviour can be very isolating and can be a real strain on your relationship.

I hope you are able to find some support and help from somewhere.

Is she behaving like this because of anxiety in the build-up to christmas? My DD is off the wall when she is anxious, she cannot control it, it looks like naughtiness, but really isn't. She hates the 'surprise' of christmas, the not knowing when people will drop round, what meals will be (other than Christmas lunch) etc, etc. The very idea of a strange man popping round with presents whilst she's asleep just about finishes her off

Is she getting enough good quality sleep?

I'm sorry- it's so hard when you're dealing with it constantly

Didn't want to leave this unanswered. I would say that the fact that she behaves at school shows she knows how to do it. It sounds as though she's feeding off your reactions.
Hard as it is (my ds has similar sn) try to stay calm. Me yelling at ds is like pouring petrol on flames. Being calm and consistent is an approach which works for us.
Try and keep her occupied and engaged - can she help with cooking, clearing up or Christmas preparation tasks? Give her some responsibility and reward her when she manages it.
I feel for you if you're not getting support but I can sympathise with your neighbours - it's not their responsibility to help. I hope things improve for you soon.

The only practical suggestion I have is that raising our voices just makes DS2's behaviour worse (related to hypersensitivity). He often doesn't understand what he has done wrong and if people start shouting at him, he just gets more distressed and erratic.

We found the 1-2-3 magic programme the most helpful for him as it doesn't involve shouting. Emotions remain calm, which is what he needs as he finds it difficult to interpret changes of emotion in others.

My post sounded patronising when I read it back - I really didn't mean it to.

Carly- it could be that in fact her DD only feels safe enough at home to let go of her emotions, to lose control a little, precisely because she knows she has unconditional love there, and is safe to 'explode'.
My DD holds it together pretty well at school, unless under extreme pressure, at home is a very different story. This is quite common in children with anxiety or AS/ASD I believe.

I agree and wonder too if it might be the anxiety of the difference and changes at christmas. and it's completely impossible to avoid as it 's everywhere.
and if zhe is anxious and can't express or deal with her emotions then it must be horrible for her.
as ssuggested, if the idea of Santa is freaking her out, then she might be glad that she's being naughty sp that he doesnm't come.

I don't know what the solution might be, but what if itm's the change of routine and sudden lack of structure?
you could make a chart (suitable tto her age/reading levvel) with times on - like an itinerary, so she knows what's going to happen on wht day at what time.
if she's worried about santa coming to the house in the night. what about saying that he's voing to drop her presents off at a friend's house on christmas eve and you'll collect them and put them under the tree? then she doesn't have that extra worry.

Didn't want you to think I'd posted begging for help then left. I posted in Chat as well (with more info): www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/1946984-Please-someone-help-me-please?msgid=43842863#43842863

This evening isn't exceptional. We lurch from meltdown/tantrum to meltdown/tantrum.

VworpVworp - your theory re exploding at home and not school has been suggested to me before by the specialist health visitor (not that there was any advice thereafter!)

I really don't think Christmas is the trigger. DD loves Christmas. Has no anxieties re Father Christmas and all that goes with it.

DD knows she has been "naughty" (whatever you want to call it). Tomorrow she will relay the whole day back if asked.

Quite often when she comes home from school she'll be in for 5 minutes, I'll make a request of her (usually could she stop doing whatever mischief she is up to) and then she'll crank up so much she'll hit me. Alternatively she's almost like a drunk that picks a fight (if that makes sense). She'll come up to me and start nudging/pushing me. In a wind-up/goady way. So eventually I'll have enough and react. And that's probably what was after; a reaction. Then it escalates. I should add, I don't smack/hit her. Used to smack her but it made no difference and in the end I feared loss of control so I called time on it.

Sorry clickable link to other thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/1946984-Please-someone-help-me-please?msgid=43842863#43842863

And now DH and DD have gone up to bed and everything is "normal". Until the next time...
I'm counting the hours

i've read the chat thread too.

it sounds like she knows her home os her safe space and is trying to exert some control onto it.
I can't tell if it's special needs as I know nothjng about that.

I still wonder whether a set routine would work.
on the other thread you say she deliberately won't do as she's told but kicks off instead. so she's trying to call the shots and be in control?
find some time this week to sit down as a family to work out your routkne/plan for the holiday. start from there. everybody gets to have a say including her and she'll get to have some control of her life.
sorry if it's off the mark, but I hope it's a usable idea.

I am no expert. My situation is very different. But I was having great difficulties with my son and went to speak with a parenting counsellor. She gave me the following things to work on...

1. Descriptive praise. Lots and lots of it. Google it. It means really giving an almost running commentary in very positive tones eg "wow you sat down after I asked you" (as opposed to "good girl".
2. Reflective listening. Repeating back what they're telling you, in a neutral or interested tone "mummy the cat won't come out", "oh, the cat won't come out" to encourage dialogue. Again google it.
3. Special time. 15 minutes 3 x a week. Ideally with each parent. Doing something fun that is a privilege. Like nail painting, learning a skill.

4 think throughs. Prior to a task that is likely to cause a tantrum. Spend no more than a minute asking questions to which she knows the answer regarding the task. Like Q. where will your bottom be while you're eating? A. On my chair. Q.which fork will you use? A.the green one. Q.what will you say when you've finished? A.please can I get down

1. Preparing for success. The practical aspect of the think throughs, so if you want her to hang her coat when she gets in, making sure there is a peg she can reach.

The woman I spoke to said that this is her starting point for nearly everyone. What ever the problem and severity. She has worked with social services and seems to know her stuff. It's certainly helped effect a dramatic improvement in our house.

Going to sign off now. I suspect I have a migraine brewing and I definitely need to go to bed.

OP: I see some similarities with my DD - no answers, sorry. But I wanted to thank bonzo77 for the list above, some ideas I will try. no. 4 especially is new to me.

I too want to thank bonzo- No 4 will be fantastic for us to try- DD cannpt step out of the house this week
I'm going to try it tomorrow, as there's somewhere she really wants to go on Christmas Eve, but anxiety is really holding her back.

This may have already been said - but should she be seen by a Child Psychiatrist or Psychologist for further assessment? Thinking ASD?

My two have Tourettes, and my DD can experience irrational rage. The only approach that works is to walk away until she calms down. Other than that I try to enjoy the positive bits, and keep the home as calm as possible. If I shout everything gets worse. Both my DC behave a lot worse at home than they do at school. They need to appear normal to fit in at school.

I get next to no support either. My DH gets upset easily if I show any upset/ inability to cope. It's not worth me not coping. Having said that he does support me/ help with the DC if I give him clear instruction on what would be useful to help life run a little smoother

I've also taken to booking myself small treats - to reward myself for coping in an ongoing, never ending situation.

I think my mantra is 'One day (hour) at a time...'

I'm going to take a chance on being blunt, as you said in a way, I hope to God there is something wrong with her because if there isn't I can't see any solution being offered

There is something wrong. She has a major communication disorder, even though she can understand / speak well at some times. Most probably only when the situation is hyper-clear and she is feeling relaxed.

I would almost guarantee she isn't fully understanding most of the instructions you give, nor most of the school stuff. Although, if she's an observant, bright child, she will pick up on various other clues and do her best to pretend that she understands. If she is tired from doing that all day at school, you will get the mother of all behaviour episodes once she's home. And then if you're like most parents, that will eventually wind you up so much, you'll resort to techniques that tend not to work very well for children with S&L disorders.

You said DD (6yo) has mild SEN (statemented for S&L/Communication problems) I'm sure this is what the school have told you, and perhaps the paediatrician. But it is almost certainly not true. No LA will part with a statement for mild problems, and especially not in key stage 1. Even with severe problems, it's "she'll catch up, it's not too bad, her progress is only x years behind, there are others worse off" etc etc.

The good news about this possibility, is that once you and school understand how to handle her needs, the behaviour outbursts should diminish. Afasic helpline can be very good. You might find she has something else on top of the S&L issues. Or you may not. Posters on this board cover the full range: global delay, ADHD, ASD, dyspraxia, auditory processing, sensory over-sensitivities, cerebral palsy: you name it, there'll be a MNSN person to advise you should you need it

For this past month DD's behaviour has been disgraceful

Same here. Same for most on the board. Fricking schools just don't know how much their stupid Christmas treats (their parties, own clothes days, toy bring and play sessions, assmeblies, unplanned carol singing rehersals and all the rest of that bah-humbug seasonal stuff) can upset our poor little children and their poor little mothers.

The Grinch had the right idea. He could run a school for dc with SEN far better

I've nicked this post from another poster as it might help BeeMom Sun 22-Dec-13 02:27:30
Try and rephrase things to eliminate the negative (don't).

Bee processes verbal directions VERY slowly, and clearly she thinks in images (if that makes any sense).

Now... try and imagine yourself NOT doing something. In order to do that, you must first picture yourself doing it. If you process slowly, you'll get stuck on the "do" and never progress to the don't. It is not defiance, but getting stuck on the first portion if what is essentially a lot of words.

You can add in the why once she is grasping the initial direction - she wants/needs it to feel like she has a grasp of the entire situation.

So... don't touch the DVD becomes "leave the DVD on the table"
don't pick your nail varnish becomes "keep your varnish on your nails"
don't swing on the gate becomes "keep the gate still"

It takes a while to put this into practice, but I'll be honest when I say that moving forward using phrases like this has doubled (or better) Bee's "compliance" with instructions.

Sorry for the trying day - it can really get under your skin, can't it? wine

Some really good advice here! (I am taking notes...)

My son too loves Christmas - the excitement, the presents... but cannot cope with all the changes in routine.
Like many of the parents on this board I too have a son who holds it together (and is very compliant) at school, and then crashes at home.

We have had violent meltdowns most nights for the last month - but we are getting better at managing them.

Even when things are going well, DS struggles with the lack of control he has at school - because school don't meet his needs. So then he needs to feel in control at home.

You are not alone!
Polter and the others have a lot of collective wisdom - and are very supportive.

maria's post re Bee is excellent.
negatives can hard tk undrstand if there is a processing problem

givhng instructions in the positive helps a lot with that and it has the added bonus of her not feeling like she's being told off all the time.

Thank you for all your advice, suggestions and support

Today everything is back to "normal". It's like yesterday didn't happen as far as DD is concerned.

Polter - I completely agree with you about it being atrocious that the behaviour specialist hasn't yet shared her findings. The only time I've really spoken to her was at an initial meeting with DD (where she, amongst other things, asked some of the most random questions. Eg. what was my relationship like with my late (who I never met) FIL's first wife? This is a lady of around 90 yrs old who I've met twice. Huh??). She met with DD for about four 30 minute sessions. I have no idea what they did (playing) and she never gave me the opportunity to tell her other incidents along the way (it's not like DD was referred for a one off meltdown - this is an ongoing situation and I wanted to tell the woman about stuff as it was happening so it could be included in the notes or whatever but I was just ushered out the door as time had run out). DD's last session was about 5/6 weeks ago and, whilst I kept trying to contact the behaviourist for a meeting for me, she eventually offered me a date in January. I actually don't have much faith in her.

DD's teachers are sometimes like the 3 wise monkeys! When I first alluded to her behaviour problems at home I was told "oh well, she's good for us and that's all we're concerned about".

Yes I get DLA for her

Yes Maria you're right. I strongly suspect DD is, for the most part, pretending to understand things particularly at school

I am now going to take a bit of time to read through everyone's replies and help links.