Insisting on eye contact...

[BeeMom]

I am curious about how you manage this.

DS (15) is highly verbal and has tested with a "very superior intellect" (I DETEST that term) - and at his age, can explain how eye contact makes him feel. He has told me that when he works on eye contact, he is concentrating so hard on where he is supposed to be looking that he misses out totally on the actual words in the conversation/instruction. He bought himself a t-shirt to wear at school that says "I don't have to look at your eyes to hear what is coming out of your mouth". We have practiced for years with him on ways to "fake" eye contact. Brief glances, but mostly watching the speaker's mouth, or looking just above, below or to the side of their eyes. He finds the eyes, however, very distracting...

Bee (8) has the same challenges with eye contact, but with her cognitive impairment and severe processing issues, we need to know somehow that she is taking in what we are saying to her. For her, when she is being spoken to, she is asked to "find mummy/daddy". This cues her to look in our direction and prepare herself mentally to take in an instruction, we make sure we are down at her level, then speak to her in short (one step) chunks. We do not demand eye contact from her, though.

With both of the kids, when they try to make sustained eye contact, you can see it is fatiguing, and that they are not taking anything in - moreover, they both are so unnatural with it - they don't look at you, they drill through you with their stares.

I am asking this, though, because of Bee's IEP in the crappy MS school. They keep obsessing over eye contact, insisting it needs to be a goal. We do not see it that way, and want to work more on processing and conversation than where her eyes are pointed (and frankly, she is legally blind, so what benefit eye contact makes is a little unclear - you wouldn't demand a profoundly blind child "look" at you). They seem to be just pushing it as it is "supposed to be an ASD goal, so it needs to be on her IEP". Don't provide any ABA, though... piecemeal crap

Am I fighting a losing battle?

Eye contact is quite an "easy" thing to work on, in that it's something concrete and visual that you can see and measure. I think that's why its very tempting for schools to pick it as a target, and sometimes work on it for years and years and years and years...

I think there needs to be FAR more awareness in general of what a difficult, painful experience making eye contact can be for some people, and how from their point of view, how meaningless is actually is in the context of their communication. It sounds as though your son could be a great advocate for his sister Beemom - can you get him into her school for some training?

My goodness, SingySongy - I thought you were about to dress me down for not insisting on it, as it was "easy". Oops I'm feeling a little insecure, I guess.

You know, it hadn't occurred to me that DS could advocate for Bee - but that might actually be beneficial for both of them - especially as he can explain, from the point of view of a person with an ASD, just what eye contact is like. He is actually quite eloquent, and has a quick wit - at least at home, in his comfort zone. I wonder if he'd be able to speak to an audience of strangers... likely, if Bee was the motivator.

He loves her fiercely - if you are familiar with My Little Pony, Bee calls DS Shining Armour - her "big brother, best friend forever".

Nothing useful to add except to say I've just had a little cry at your last post about how lovely your DS sounds.

You are all so amazing.

We have had 4 months of hell with this new school - so much so that the SS Bee attends has already declared that they will not "relinquish control" of Bee next year (have her spending more time at the MS than the SS, thereby transferring her files and giving up "ownership of her records").

They never do this - the goal of the SS is to develop programming and then move the kids to MS. Most children are 2 years in the SS - by the time Bee transitions out, she will likely have been there 5 or more.

Anyhow - this has all led to me really questioning myself. I am known as a bit of a "honey badger" out in the world advocating for my DCs, but in actuality, I am exceptionally insecure behind closed doors. I rethink everything, make 100% sure I am correct before ever engaging someone in conflict as that is the only way I can feel the least confident in my abilities... the only reason I am seen as a "formidable" advocate I laughed like mad when i heard that one is because I don't fight battles I won't win. I go in with legislation memorized, paper trails from here to eternity, school and district policies in hand.

It is support of the type I get here that gives me the strength to keep going. I can't thank you enough

Oh noooooooooo! I meant quite the opposite Beemom - hope that's obvious! Not to say that it should never be worked on - but it's often a lazy option I think. And as your son has so eloquently explained - just because you can do it, doesn't mean it's useful or comfortable. I wouldn't insist that somebody with a broken ankle constantly walked on it, just because they could manage it by trying really hard...

Singy - I figured it out totally by the second paragraph, but initially I was a little puzzled. It might be because I have knitting on the brain - I am 3/4 of the way done an epic Doctor Who scarf for my DS and am getting a little tired of wrapping yarn around sticks.

Not much time to finish it, either.

No. This is a ridiculous target and WAY premature.

What you need to be aiming for is behaviour that demonstrates to the speaker that you are listening. This is a social skill that enables the listener to pick up key and important information as people are unlikely to give instructions to someone seemingly not listening.

If you google 'whole body listening' you will get lots of ideas. Eye contact is just one of many ways to show this.

BUT, it would be STUPID to work on demonstrating listening before working on ACTUALLY listening. As the two are very separate things. Consider how developed most people are at pretending to listen. Most of us can switch off for a bit and still nod along, make facial expressions, put our body in listening poses when we are doing nothing of the sort. It is a social skill to not alienate a friend we are currently finding boring or simply have other priorities for our thoughts.

Body language doesn't help us listen. It gives the person talking to us feedback that they may continue. It's far too advanced a skill for someone that needs a lot of practice with basic listening and following instructions.

Eye contact for me makes me feel creepy crawly and uncomfortable (always has done, since I was a child) so I can only imagine how it feels for DS1. As long as he's looking in my general direction and can repeat what instructions I've given him, I'm happy with that (we don't get even that very often, so it's still a work in progress).

When I want to tell my DS something really important, I turn my back on him. I know he's listening because the fidgety noises stop. Eye contact, who needs it?

I've stopped pushing DD2 for it, since realising that for her it 'feels wrong'. I feel bad because for 2 years I've been teaching it explicitly

Lougle, teaching it is fine. It's a social skill she has to learn the existence of even if she doesn't use it.

she is legally blind, so what benefit eye contact makes is a little unclear

So wtf is a goal of eye contact doing on her IEP? Get your GP or paediatrician to shoot this one down. Or optician. or eye hospital. or even the receptionist's cat

Really. Any health professional worth the name could write a rather cutting concise letter and kill this idiocy in seconds. It's not worth your time or energy. Let someone else get stroppy on your behalf.

Lougle, iv been doing it with my dd...keep telling her look at mummy's eyes, where are my eyes? Good looking, n then I speak to her or listen to her. She is getting upset a bit cuz she says YES OK really loudly in a angry voice.

But in the same breath, she's getting it because she will say mummy listen