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Let DC go to school after age 5 instead of after age 4?

23 replies

lottytheladybird · 17/12/2013 10:02

My DS1 has autism and a speech and language delay. He is 3.5 years old, so should be starting school in September 2014. We keep umming and arring about whether we should wait until 2015 for him to start school. Have you kept your DC at home for an extra year before they started school? Was it beneficial? How easy/hard was it to do? Any thoughts would be welcome. It's such a big decision!

OP posts:
lougle · 17/12/2013 10:16

Lotty, you'd need to be very sure of what you are doing. For most LAs, if you choose to send him in September 2015, he would go straight into Year 1, missing YR altogether. You would also need to apply for a Year 1 place, which means that he'd only get a place if the school is undersubscribed for Year 1, or someone had left.

There is provision now, in the new Admissions code of conduct, to allow schools/LAs to place a child 'out of year', which means that your DC would start in Year R in 2015 and stay a year behind for their whole school career. Most LAs are still very reluctant to do this and require clear medical support in the form of either Consultant letters recommending the child be held back a year, or Ed Psych assessments, etc., which show it's in the child's best interests.

Does your DS have a Statement, or will he be getting one before he starts school?

MariaNoMoreLurking · 17/12/2013 10:17

I didn't. But wished I had.

TBH, the best option for ds1 would have been an extra year at nursery

Sneezecakesmum · 17/12/2013 10:44

DGS started full time MS school a few days after his 5th birthday. He has severe physical disabilities and only a few words. We were very sure he wasn't going to start full time anything at 4. He was physically an d mentally not ready. The plan was 5 mornings a week at nursery with a mixture of school and a different SN nursery. This mixed option was agreed so that he would get to know the other children but in the end all the building adaptations for him took longer, so he started full time in September. I think he is in year 1? Or maybe the second year or reception? Blush He is one of the oldest.

It's is definitely successful as he has blossomed at school. I think if you know your child go with your instincts.

Saracen · 17/12/2013 12:37

You're in England or Wales, I guess?

Lougle said: "You would also need to apply for a Year 1 place, which means that he'd only get a place if the school is undersubscribed for Year 1, or someone had left."

This is true. However, there is a way round this problem. The School Admissions Code gives all parents the right to defer their children's start without risk of losing the school place. To be sure of keeping the school place, the child is required to start by the end of his Reception year or by the time he reaches compulsory school age in the term after his fifth birthday, whichever is earlier.

As your son is summer-born, that would mean he would have to start by the end of his Reception year. Many people seem to assume that a summer-born child would have to start at Easter, but there is actually nothing in the School Admissions Code specifying that he has to start at the beginning of a term.

So if I wanted my summer-born child to start as late as possible, I would defer until July, perhaps the very last week of his Reception year. Think of it as a taster week and an opportunity for everyone to find out more about how he'd cope at school so you can figure out what needs to be in place ready for September. The good thing about deferring in this way is that you don't need permission from anyone; you just have to inform them that is what you are doing.

...or were you hoping to put him into Reception in the September after his fifth birthday?

lougle · 17/12/2013 13:00

Very true, Saracen. I suppose my reservation with that is that it only gets around the technicality of having to apply for a Y1 place - the child has still missed an entire year of foundational learning, and is thrust into a class that has learned all their basic phonics and is building on it, etc.

lottytheladybird · 17/12/2013 13:06

Thank you for all your comments so far. I had assumed that if I I deferred my son for a year that he would then go into Reception in Sep 2015. I wouldn't want him to go straight into Y1. Looks like I'll have to do some homework on how it all works in my LA.

Although my son is behind his peers, he is making really good progress with his language. He can count up to 30 independently and write the numbers up to 25. I always think that once he learns to talk more, then he'll catch up, but I don't know if I'm being foolish in thinking that...

OP posts:
lougle · 17/12/2013 13:09

For most children, deferring for a year = missing Reception year, or as Saracen says, missing 'most' of Reception year and just experiencing the last week/few weeks.

The only way (even with the new Code) of deferring and maintaining normal school order, is to make a specific request to the Admissions team in your area. They will then want to see medical support that it's the right thing for your child.

boobybum · 17/12/2013 13:10

Hi, our 4 year old DS has autism and was due to start in reception this September. However, given his difficulties (he is non verbal) and the fact that he is an August baby we managed to get him put back a year so he is now doing half days in nursery. He has a Statement ad we made sure that he will go into reception next year rather than skipping and going straight into year one. This is specified on his Statement. The powers that be may well try to get him to miss year six so that he goes into secondary school with his age group but we will cross that bridge later. He is currently in mainstream but we don't know whether this will be the right place for him long term yet but really wanted to give it a try while he is still young. He is absolutely loving nursery. We have managed to get his ABA tutors as his one to one so we are sure his time there is being used productively and apparently the other kids really love him, in fact he has a little 'harem' of 3 or 4 girls who adore him!

We felt very strongly about putting him back a year and would have gone to tribunal for it if necessary. We came up with some strong arguments beforehand (have a look at the Bliss website for some ideas) and we had the support of his paediatrician. We never claimed that the extra year would mean he would catch up because that is unrealistic but we said the extra year would give him time to hopefully acquire some basic skills such as toilet training, dressing etc and gain some classroom skills such as being able to sit down for story time, line up etc

lottytheladybird · 17/12/2013 13:25

boobybum - Thank you for telling me about your DS. It was lovely to hear how your DS is loved by the girls. My DS1 is loved by the girls at his nursery, too.

Did you apply for your son to start reception after his fifth birthday before or after you applied for the statement? How does the application process for deferring a year work? (I had initially, naively, thought that you either decided to send them to school when they were 4 or when they were 5 and that was that!)

OP posts:
boobybum · 17/12/2013 14:11

Hi, it's all a bit of a blur now but from memory the statementing process began around xmas last year as he was due to start reception in September so that is when the LEA sent us te paperwork. We said very early on that we wanted to delay his entry and the actually process of finalising the statement took months but was in place before he started school.
I seem to remember that the head teacher said the decision regarding delayed entry was down to the LEA and they said it was down to the head! In any case we got them to agree. If our DS had gone into reception he would have needed full time one to one which would have cost the school a lot more than just the 2.5 hours he has at nursery so perhaps they were secretly hoping that he wouldn't cope at mainstream!

boobybum · 17/12/2013 14:14

On sorry - I forgot to say that we also said that if they didn't let us delay his school entry then we wouldn't send him until he had turned 5 which would have been September 2014.
I believe that LEAs aren't allowed to have blanket policies and have to take each case on its merits.

PolterGoose · 17/12/2013 19:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BigBird69 · 17/12/2013 20:35

We delayed our son for a year (July birthday) but the only way we could do it was to pay and go private. He did three years and we got a statement and is now at a specialist independent school. It was the best thing we ever did and although hard, worth every penny.

Saracen · 18/12/2013 05:17

lotty, you say you have a hunch that your son will catch up later on, you just don't expect he'll be ready for Reception yet at the age of four. That makes it trickier for you to decide which year group you should want him to go into (assuming you can manage to get what you want). Being unready to start school at four doesn't imply he'll be better off learning alongside younger children when he's older. It seems that it's quite difficult to have a child adjusted up or down a year later on except when it suits the convenience of the LA.

Many parents in England and Wales envy Scottish parents the flexibility they have in deciding which year group their children should join. But I don't think that's an ideal system either. It requires the parent to forecast years in advance whether their child would be better off as one of the youngest in the year group or one of the eldest. Some children's future development is all too easy to foretell even at the age of four, but most children's futures are not. And so parents are left debating which year group will best suit their particular child when he's a teenager: when should he sit exams, how will his social life be, what's best for his sporting future, when should he start university... all while the child in question is four years old!! To me this seems crazy, having to predict your child's future needs ten years in advance, but I guess that is how it is.

You could simply delay the whole question until it's clearer to you how your son is going to develop. What about waiting two or three years before sending him to school? You could wait until you are fairly sure he's ready to cope well emotionally. A few years down the line his support needs might be easier to establish, making it easier for you to choose the right school. By then you might even be able to see whether he's likely to belong in his "correct" year group or whether it's worth lobbying to get him put into the year below.

You might not be keen on the prospect of dropping a five year old into Year One without the gentle introduction to school which Reception represents. That could be hard. But would you feel equally nervous about a seven year old starting school in Year 1 or 2 without having done Reception? Older children are more mature and adaptable. They have better coping skills and a sense of perspective. I have a suspicion that if all children in this country started school a few years later, Reception as such wouldn't be needed.

Whether early schooling is helpful in terms of speech and language issues depends on the nature of the delay, I guess. My own daughter's SALT said that what she most needed was plenty of individual conversation with an adult or teenager in an environment with little background noise. Not school then! On the other hand one of my friends who'd been planning to home educate changed her mind and sent her son to school, having been advised that his speech would be likely to improve faster in an environment where people didn't know him well and weren't attuned to his speech, so that he'd have to make more of an effort to speak clearly.

This is all pretty theoretical for me because I am keen on home education anyway but in our case, I know that school would have been all wrong for my younger daughter when she was four. Now she is seven I could well imagine her starting school comfortably. Some previous issues have disappeared, her remaining needs are quite apparent, and she can communicate well.

Trigglesx · 18/12/2013 07:51

We put DS1 into MS reception just after he turned 4yo (he was a July baby). I was quite nervous as he also had speech and language delay, although there had been some slight improvement during nursery. He was verbal, but mainly spoke with either "keywords" and expected you to understand what he meant (which means often his keywords were not what WE would choose as keywords IYSWIM and could be quite abstract), or he would repeat phrases he had heard (either in person or on telly) word for word, even though he didn't really know what they meant and didn't fit the situation.

It was a good thing for him, and his verbal skills did improve. He basically picked up some of the verbal skills in reception that he would normally have picked up in nursery at age 3, if he hadn't been struggling with a delay. He still struggles with some aspects (most cognitive) of speech and language problems, but he is much improved in some areas.

Personally, I think you're not going to know how he will do until he's there. I apologise as I know that's not horribly helpful, but the problem as I see it is our DCs are NOT textbook - they're all different and all have varying levels of difficulty and coping. So I don't know if it's really possible to predict how well he'll do. Sometimes I think we err on the side of caution (and I'm not faulting that - I do it myself frequently), but sometimes I think we need to let them try things and see how they get on. DS1 surprised us and progressed verbally in reception, thankfully. If he hadn't, I guess we would have then had to meet with the SENCO and explore our options at that point.

MrsVaughnRice · 18/12/2013 08:10

Having been in this position myself (August boy with HFA, though no language delay), if I knew then what I know now I would definitely push for a deferred start into reception in 2015 on grounds of additional needs.

Bryzoan · 18/12/2013 15:05

We have just succeeded in getting our la to write into dd's statement that she will delay a year and join reception aged 5 in 2015. Booby is right, LAs are no longer allowed blanket policies against this for summer born / prem kids and need to consider each case on merit. We did not have explicit consultant / ed psych support but there were comments both had made which helped our case. I'd be very happy to share more info on our arguments with anyone who PMs me.

Sneezecakesmum · 18/12/2013 16:05

DGS went straight into the second year of reception, not Y1, full time the day after his 5th birthday. To have gone full time at 4 would have been far too much for him physically and mentally.

Before that he did 5 mornings at nursery.

He has a full statement which was organised around the time the school was being sorted out.

lottytheladybird · 19/12/2013 21:50

Thank you so much for all of your comments. Reading about your experiences has really really helped. We're now keen to defer DS1's school entry. Where do we start though? Any advice on the procedure would be most welcome. Who should I talk to first? Who do I need to get on side?

Poltergoose - How is your DS getting on at school? Are you happy that your didn't delay your son starting school in the end?

Saracen - Thank you for your thoughts. I think you make a very good point about not being nervous about a 7 year old starting school without first going into reception.

Trigglesx - Please could I ask how your son got on socially with his peers? Did he manage to make some friends despite his speech & language delay?

OP posts:
2old2beamum · 21/12/2013 17:00

Sorry missed this thread (silly old fart) Agree with what you are saying. DD2 birthday end of August (DS) started school 4yrs + 8days It was hard she went through MS and she did an extra year at the end of secondary school having got 2 GCSE's (not A grade I must add Grin)

On the other hand DD3 also DS ( birthday June) delayed school entrance for a year but did not do reception. She too did an extra year when 16 years and got 3 GCSE's Again not A*

What I am trying to say go with your gut feelings and good luck!!

Loopytiles · 22/12/2013 14:03

Hi lotty, there's a facebook group called something like "flexible school admissions", a website run by parents with info, and new DfE guidelines on admissions, encouraging local authorities to be flexible (but no legal force). Might be useful for you to see, if knew how would post links!

Loopytiles · 22/12/2013 14:04

summerbornchildren.org/

Sneezecakesmum · 22/12/2013 16:30

It's perfectly possible to do part time in reception rather than nursery. This was going to be DGS' plan. Part time, split placement at nursery and the first year of reception to get to know the other kids. Not able to do it because the equipment wasn't in place. Now at full time in the second year of reception this September. He was 5 in September.

Look into part time in the reception year as it's a gentle ease into the school.

The powers that be just organised everything really, statement, school etc, though we were consulted Grin.

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