Asps DT2 - no friends - and his sociable NT twin

[BlogOnTheTyne]

DTs are 12 and I'm finding it ever harder to see DT2 losing friends and having no one to hang out with, whilst his NT, v socially skilled DT is beginning to branch out in independence with his friends.

There's a long back story here but effectively, DT2 - with Asperger's - was really lucky to have had a lovely group of friends from age 5 and more from age 7. They went up school together, were all a bit quirky and DT2 never ever felt he had problems with his peers, although he suffered low level bullying from the class 'cool kids'.

Slowly, DT1's (NT) friendship group began to include many of DT2s friends. DT1 is into computing - which made him attractive to DT2's geeky friends, whilst DT2 hates IT. DT2 was never into the kind of subjects many of his eccentric friends were into - like maths, IT, science. DT2 is much more into English/creative writing/History/Politics/Debating (he has v strong opinions on everything and likes to voice these to an audience!).

In Yr 7, after about a term, the 2 v v good friends that were put in the same class as DT2, stopped interacting with him - and he them. The other friends that he'd had since age 7, were now scattered across several classes. So he never saw them and everyone began to make new friends.

His twin was in a class with one of DT2s best friends - and this boy is now DT1's best friend, as they share a love of IT. Across the last year and now one term into Yr8, DT1 has consolidated new friendships and DT2 has lost every single one of his many friends that he's ever had.

I find it heart-breaking. How can I help him? I think it's even worse because DT1 now has close friendships with several of DT2's old friends and so if DT1 is going out to do something with a friend or is invited to yet another party, DT2 is conscious of the fact that these boys used to be HIS friends and not his twin's.

Having DT1's friends round here is also extremely hard as there's no one for DT2 to have round and no one inviting him round - and the boys coming over are people he USED to have as friends and now they don't talk at all to DT2 or he to them.

Sorry this is so long but I'm SO sad for DT2. He claims to have made 2 new friends but one of those boys lives a 2 hr train journey from us and the school and the other is close friends with a boy who's close friends with DT1 - so will likely drift towards DT1 in time, too.

At 12, DT2 is too old for me to try to manufacture friendships really. I don't know the 2 new 'friends' at all, whereas I know really well the boys and their families, who used to be DT2s friends and so I could help things along in the old days, by talking to the mums.

So do I now just have to stand back and let life unfold for DT2 and work on helping him not care that he's got no friends and those he had, prefer his twin now and don't speak to him at all? Do I attempt some subtle intervention to get him together with the 2 new 'friends' - although from what DT2 tells me, they seem to share little in common with DT2 and his interests but are friendly towards DT2 as they're really kind children, I think?

Also, DT2 is adamant that he NEVER wants any of his new friends round here if his twin is here with friends or here at all, as he knows by now that all children gravitate towards his socially skilled twin - even though DT1 isn't at all trying to 'take away' his friends.

I guess this is partly a twins issue, partly a teens issue and partly a SN issue but I felt by putting it in here, others with DCs with Asperger's may understand best and be able to advise.

Do the school run any social skills groups?? Many do as there are more DC's with Asd being included in mainstream. He might not only learn some valuable social skills but also meet new people who may have similar interests and issues as him.

Other than that what about friendships out side school, maybe a drama group or debating society or something else he might be interested.

Scouts are brilliant with Dd3 who is 11 and has Asd, if you can find a good inclusive group near you and he will be off out doing things but under supervision so wont need the same level of independence.

Music and Air Cadets were a lifesaver for Dd1 who is an undiagnosed Aspie.

Hope some of that helps.

Good luck

Thanks for this. Most of his old friends are somewhere 'on the spectrum' so if there were a social skills group at school, they'd be there! However, there isn't really a group. The learning support tutor did suggest to me at some point that he see her for some help but DT2 would be thoroughly mortified and humiliated to see himself singled out in that way and I don't think there's much she could teach him that I couldn't myself.

He already belongs to several clubs at school like debating but whilst he joined tons at the start of Yr 7, he dropped lots and lots as the committments became too demanding and also the kind of clubs he wanted to join were almost all female dominated, whilst his old friends all gravitated towards computing/lego/engineering/ science etc.

He used to do drama but has outgrown the desire to be 'up on stage' and in anycase, there's so little time outside his school committments for other clubs. He's never ever wanted to try scouts or cadets as he hates the idea of anything like that. Again, sadly, one of his ex best friends, whose bow best friends with his NT twin - is an active member of a local scouts troup - but NT DT1 would be the one most likely to enjoy scouting activities.

He does do other school clubs like a music ensemble and canoeing but there are no 'friends' in these - or just some of the old ones who no longer talk to him.

He also does lots of 'positions of responsibility' at school like school council, house rep etc - which is always popular with his teachers - but doesn't really make you popular with peers.

I suspect that DT1 has 'taken' so many of DT2's friends, inadvertently because he's been lifelong used to being with his twin with Asps and lots of these friends/peers are similar. So DT1 knows how to 'be' with them.

The current 2 new 'friends' of DT2 are v v NT compared with all his old friends - but that makes me fear they'll eventually move away from him as they branch out with their other friendships.

12 is a difficult age for a quirky boy. Their peers are pretty immature, and the girls aren't yet acceptable as friends.

Although social skills groups can be embarrassing, being buddied up with older boys might help a bit- it's a fairly cool way to be singled out. Think school (if they're good) might be the other key here. They could maybe run some boys-only groups for his main interests. Just as girls often need a bit of a push towards the science/tech/maths stuff, boys should get opportunities to learn to like politics etc.

Merlincat, I sometimes wonder if NT DT1 is SO sociable because he's been brought up alongside his Asps bro and this has meant he's learned to adapt and fit to get on as best as possible with an eccentric child - so he can then use the same strategies to fit with most other children too.

I dread the years when dating starts as I think NT DT1 will have a few girlfriends and DT2 will lag behind hugely or not have any or get fixated on one who doesn't reciprocate at all.

It's v v difficult with the parents of his old friends because I don't want to 'push' their children into still being friends with DT2. I don't really know how they drifted apart and it may well have been DT2 misinterpreting his old friends inclusion of new children in the group and then DT2 feeling left out and usurped, when they didn't mean to do that.

All DT2 will tell me is that they've "changed personalities" so they're no longer compatible and he feels "more mature" than they are. I think he's trying to feel better about it all but don't really know where the truth lies. As his friends weren't exactly great at social skills themselves, it's possible that they mutually believed the other no longer wanted to be friends and just stopped speaking to each other and now DT2 'categorises' them as "not friends", rather than "friends".

What was really hard this year was DT2 not being invited to any of the parties for his old friends, whilst all the others still were and some new children. He's gone annually to their parties since age 5 or 7 yrs old. But I couldn't just phone up the mums and say, "why hasn't DT2 been invited?"

I may try to help/enable DT2 to set something up with a new 'friend' after Xmas but as I don't know these children, I can't 'read' whether they really want to be his friends or are just being nice.

Maria, the school set up a specific club that DT2 had actually requested but it turned out to be full of of almost all girls and the teacher running it didn't do anything but his marking whilst letting the children get on with it. So that didn't work out.

I've alluded to the old friends' mums about what a shame it is that their soms are no longer friends with DT2 but I don't want to make a big deal of this. One of them did feed back that her son (DT2s very best friend since age 5) found DT2 too 'pugnacious', which I think refers to DT2 having strong, polarised opinions about things. Her son is v v quiet and gentle (cries a lot) and also on the spectrum but absolutely into maths and music and sciences.

That friendship 'worked' for yrs when the boy was happy to rely on DT2 to accompany him everywhere and keep up a running monologue, but I expect now he's growing up and more confident, he no longer wants to be on the receiving end of DT2 going on and on about things. DT2 is deeply inthe throes of puberty now and so he's moody and full of testosterone and I'm sure this is making the quiet gentle friends of old back off from him. He's not actively done anything to affect them negatively but he'll stride around voicing his opinions without any diplomacy and that doesn't go down v well.

Has anyone else had the same situation with a close in age NT sibling or even twins, where the difference in friendships becomes more and more pronounced?

Today, NT twin is out with his friends at cinema and for a meal and although I wanted to do loads of stuff, including Xmas shopping today, I haven't the heart to leave DS2 on his own but he just seems to want to sit at his computer and doesn't want to go out with me.

He isn't saying much about being stuck at home with mum but it must feel awful for him that his twin is out with his own ex-good friend and another mate and no one wants to meet up with or see DT2.

Well, I don’t have twin Aspie kids, but DS is Aspie and 15 years old, and we do have twins in my extended family. I don’t really have any solutions, though to be honest I think it helps if you try not to compare them, your DS’s are just two very different people.

Your DCs have now reached the tricky age where it’s unusual for parents to set up their social lives for them. My DS had a roaring social life at primary school, but after a year of secondary he had no informal social life outside school, no parties, dropping in, etc. But still he would rather have died than have me try to arrange a social meetup for him. The only exception is occasional trips to the cinema with the son of a friend where my friend and I make all the arrangements and it is quite clear to that this is about our need to see the back of them both for a couple of hours (though they always enjoy it!) Like your DS he does a couple of activities that don’t involve much socialising. I felt I just had to go along with it. My DS is not bullied or isolated in school, he chats to the others and he gets along well enough. He also refused to go to Scouts but last year he did decide to do Duke of Edinburgh which he enjoys.

I would give your DS space and let him find his own way. And if he wants to sit at home, you really don’t have to sit at home with him, assuming he’s sensible enough to be left. He may not be feeling lonely at all. Bear in mind that people with Asperger’s can quickly get “peopled out” and maybe with the demands of secondary school he’s finding it hard to get enough “alone time” and time to pursue his individual interests. Try not to worry!

We're not (quite) at this stage yet and the DT2 thing is a com

Sorry. A complicating factor.

I have every intention of interfering in ds's friendships and leisure time, as I doubt the need for 'facilitation' will vanish.

And already I see problems with same-age friendships: older or younger friends are much easier because the general expectation of 'same-ness' isn't there.

After school is disasterous for us, weekends or holidays work better. Something structured, predictable, humanities-based, mixed age, minimal girls... wonder if a wannabe Cambridge law student needs something for the UCAS form, otherwise you'll end up running it yourself