just beging school career -need soem advice from you more expereinced people

[feelathome]

Hi, my DS is 5, in year R. I have been reading threads on here, our situation sounds similar to some on here. He has been put on a part time timetable 2 days a week, and in a behaviour centre three full days a week.
I don't understand what he is entitled to. He doesn't have a diagnosis of anything, or a statement, but he becomes aggressive when under stress, possibly attachment issues. Has seen the Ed Psyc who has suggested strategies to help him.
Because he does not have a statement is he entitled to SA SA plus etc? He gets 1-1 support the two half days that he is in school, but the school say they cant afford to offer him 1-1 for an more hours.
Is that right? Can he be kept at home due to money? if he had a statement, would that bring money with it so he could go to school for full days?

sorry for so many questions, got a TAC on Wed and would like to know what I can ask for/insist on.

urg, sorry for the typos

Hiya,

Why do you think your ds might have attachment issues? Is his behaviour difficult at home?

You should apply for a statement if he's on a p/t timetable.

He doesn't need a diagnosis to access support. If the school can't afford more support but they think that he needs it, then they should be applying for it.

IPSEA are very helpful. Can take a while to get through but well worth speaking to them.

Starlight,

His Post Adoption Support Worker suggested this, sorry, I forgot to mention that.
Thelady, thanks, I wasn't sure if he could get any help without an official 'label' iyswim. School have been very honest in saying they cant afford 1-1 for him so he had to go to the behaviour centre or be excluded. Is this even legal, do they have to provide him with support, or can they exclude because his behaviour is bad?

'His Post Adoption Support Worker suggested this'

Attachment disorders are real, but rare. I don't know why your ds was adopted but hidden developmental disabilities can put such a strain on an unsupported family that it can turn the most loving parents into less loving ones sometimes purely for survival.

Given that it is now estimated that 1 in 52 boys has ASD, I would say this, or something like this is far more likely than attachment disorder.

You also need to know that attachment disorder as a dx is often an excuse to not provide support and blame all difficulties on the child's past with a shrug that nothing can be done.

I would avoid allowing a belief of attachment disorder to perpetuate until you are absolutely certain there is no other explanation for your child's difficulties. And even then insist that the focus is on need and not diagnosis.

School haven't been honest, sorry. If they had been they would have told you that funding is given to them for all children with SEN, but that it isn't ring fenced so unspent can be used for a whole school pantomime etc.

They haven't told you that the Local Authority is legally obligated to ensure your child receives an adequate full-time education and should the school not have enough resources to support your child adequately then they must tell the Local Authority who will look at their accounts and tell them how to afford it, or provide more funding.

They haven't told you that a part time education is an illegal exclusion.

They haven't told you that the behaviour centre is usually the worst possible placement for a child with suspected ASD.

Starlight, I hope you are still about, cos I could do with chatting to someone who knows about this.
I knew all that you said about funding, and that he is entitled to a full time education, but, seeing as he doesn't officially have SEN how do I go about getting it acknowledged? How can he be included in the SEN budget if he doesn't have a statement or a diagnosed SEN.
Got a TAC tomorrow and want to see him increase his hours at school, where do I stand if the school say they cant offer him 1-1 so wont have him?

spoke to my council they were spectacularly unhelpful, basically said it is up to the head teacher, (with me), to decide if he can cope with full time school.
I asked if the LA had a duty to provide him with full time education, and she just repeated that if he is disrupting other children the head can decide it is in Ds's best interests to be on a part time timetable.

So it looks like I'm stuck, no idea when, or if he will be able to go to school full time, he is going to be slipping behind in his learning soon, and no idea if he will be able to catch up.
Looks like there is nothing I can do about it, just whatever the head teacher wants. What if they decide he can never cope with being full time, can he stat part time indefinitely? If he has a support person, he can cope, just not on his own, so its all to do with money.

If he has to have an education different to that which is normally provided for in a mainstream school for typical children then your child has SEN regardless of the cause.

His name should be on the SEN register and on school action with an IEP written in consultation with you.

If there is any reason why the school cannot cope with him fulltime, they should bring in an Educational Psychologist to assess him, putting him straight onto school action plus.

The SEN budget isn't separate from the core budget, which covers ALL children regardless of SEN but according to need. There are no hoops to jump through. Your ds needs support to access a mainstream full-time education it is the duty of the Local Authority to ensure he gets this and the school is accountable to the Local Authority.

However, as you have seen, the Local Authority are quite happy to deny their obligation and allow the school to break the law.

It is essential therefore that you begin to learn your child's rights and get organised.

thanks Starlight, this is really helpful. He has been seen by an educational psychologist, and as far as I know the school are putting her suggestions into place, on the 2 mornings that he is there. I've no idea if he has an IEP, I've never seen one or been consulted about it.

All I really want at the moment is for him to be able to go 2 afternoons a week as well as 2 mornings. I am happy with the work the behaviour centre are doing three days a week, he loves it there, is learning loads and very happy.

That's good feel. In that case you need to write to the school (it's important that it is in writing) stating that as your child is entitled to a full-time education, after a -reintergration period the first week in January, you will not be collecting your child for those two afternoons unless he is formally expelled, in which case you will expect full paperwork that accompanies such an exclusion.

If the school tell you they can't do this for financial reasons, tell them to hire an accountant or inform the LA that they are no longer financially viable so they can get help, but your are only interested in your child and his needs, not their finances.

And get to know the IPSEA website as with a school like that in a LA like that I imagine at some point you will need their services.

just looking at their website now, and got a call booked to them thisafternoon

That's great. Hope it helps.

I first learnt about the statementing system as a junior doctor on a short placement in community paediatrics about 12 years ago. What I have heard about it from the education and parental side in the last few years is SO far removed from my initial understanding of how it was intended to work that I struggle to equate the two.

But even so, I cannot imagine that it is appropriate that a child who at age 5 already needs such an altered placement, does not have a proper statement of their educational needs. The system seems to be working back to front and inside out.

Pythonesque, We did talk about getting him a statement whilst he was at nursery, but were persuaded by the area INCO to 'wait till he is at school and see how it goes'
Wish we hadn't listened, but you live and learn.

You can apply now. You'll need documentary evidence of his exclusions.

What did IPSEA say?

I don't have any documentary evidence. But have a TAC meeting tomorrow, so will bring it up then, if they are not keen I think ill go ahead and apply anyway.

The manager of the behaviour centre told me she can usually tell within 6 weeks of meeting a child if they will need a statement or not, so she wants us to wait until then. However, I can't see how it will hurt to apply now, if he magically improves soon due to their intervention I guess I can always tell the LA that I no longer want to continue with the assessment.

IPSEA didn't say anything, the man said he would ask his legal team for advice and e mail me back within 1 hour. That was at 3.15, and not heard anything yet. Hope they come back with something before the meeting tomorrow afternoon.

I never imagined having to fight so hard to get my child the help he needed, this is not what I thought parenting was about.

Well you'll have documentary evidence if you submit a parental report highlighting the arrangements so far, clearly showing the arrangements including some half-days at home, to be helpful.

It can be just a paragraph, dated and signed.

Try not to say much tomorrow or agree to anything but hear them out. If things sound reasonable thank them for the suggestion and agree simply to think about it, talk to you DH/advocate/solicitor, get back to them.

If you are feeling confident get the minutes agreed as you go along so that you are confident that the details you remember are what they agree has happened. It can be recorded that you have agreed to think about something and get back to them. Ask for a print out or photocopy as you leave (warn then in advance that you'd like this) and if they refuse get that minuted.

At the last TAC they tried to get me to sign paperwork for his transfer to the behaviour centre there and then, and were not too happy that I said I needed to discuss it with DH first. So I will use the same tactic, not agree to anything till I have spoken to him. Social worker and ed psych will be there, and they both seem to really understand DS and know his needs better than the school, so I will not be entirely on my own there.

Just hears back from IPSEA. They sent me a lot of stuff I had already seen, but in a logical order, with some explanation, that really helped me see its relevance to my situation.
I feel ready for the meeting tomorrow, thanks starlight, you have been a great help. If you don't mind, I#ll probably be back later in the week with more questions!

Good luck.

By the way, don't be stressed by this meeting tomorrow. No doubt you see it as an opportunity to advocate for your ds and are desperate to get it right. I can tell you this with utmost certainty, you will have other chances.

Even if you do agree to something, you can always in writing explain that on reflection you have changed your mind. You can do that.

You can always ask for additional meetings or communicate via letters to clarify points, hold people to account etc.

You don't have to know everything right away.

Even when THEY agree something, there will be time (usually far too much) before they implement it and plenty can get in the way (maternity leave, caseloads, sickness, Christmas etc.).

Things won't ever spiral out of control. If anything you'll find you need to take control to make things happen at all.

You're welcome to ask as many questions on this board as you need to. There is a lot of experienced people.

Oh, and you don't need anyone's permission to apply for a statutory assessment for a statement. It's a simple letter.

Best of luck.

Meeting went well. I went armed with info but didn't need any of it. They agreed to the full days that I wanted, admitted they should have shown me his IBP ( promised me it next Monday, have to wait and see) but didn't advise going for a statement, as his behaviour is improving at the moment, so no evidence to show one is needed. I told them if situation deteriorates again I would apply for one straight away.

That's great that the meeting went well.

You don't need their permission to apply for a statement - you can apply for it now yourself. Don't wait for the situation to deteriorate again.