Teaching social skills

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Hiya, I've been looking at the [[http://www.autism.org.uk/living-with-autism/communicating-and-interacting/social-skills/social-skills-in-young-children.aspx list of social skills] that the NAS thinks might need support in children with ASD, and I've decided to just start working through them with my nearly 9 year old.

I don't know if there is a better way of doing this but I have been waiting for some sort of magic wand to help with how to teach social skills, and then just thought, actually, it is up to me. I probably need a structured approach as otherwise it all feels so overwhelming to me, and this list is as good as any, I suppose.

So. I started with greeting and goodbyes. We are talking about those and practicising those this week, and probably next week. Talking about why we want to make people feel welcome, why it is different with people we know or not, how to make people feel like they want to come again, asking him to choose a phrase that he can say other than, 'Hi!' and 'Bye!', the importance of eye contact, etc.

Is anyone else doing this? Do you use workbooks or other resources? Are there some online resources that he might be able to use himself? ?He hates thinking about it, so I just need to keep saying, 'This is part of life, we need to practice it.'

Hiya,

No. Not at the moment but it would be lovely to have a support thread about it. My problem is that my ds' language difficulties are too severe to have discussions about anything so the kind of approach we have to have is 'just do this' and we're pretty far behind on the social skills thing.

I'm thinking of pulling him out of his special school because they have a 'discussing way of teaching and I think he needs a bit more RL experience with support. Terrified that what he'll end up with is MH issues instead though.

Starlight that is really hard not being able to provide the foundation of ideas by discussion.

My son does get the ideas using discussion but then putting them into practice is really hard. He sort of gets 'shy' so if I prompt him in front of other people he clams up...but it doesn't seem like shyness, it seems like bloody obstinacy!

I've started (THIS WEEK!) trying to remember saying BEFORE a situation, 'Remember let's do good greetings now.' But half the time I forget and then I get stressed when he doesn't remember himself, and aaarggghhh.

I'm also trying to set up more situations as practice and telling the other grown ups that we are practising this so can they support me.

I think giving him some control is helpful for him, as 'We do it like this' only works to a certain extent. So saying to him, 'What do you want to say beyond, 'Thanks!' is helpful. But insisting that he HAS to say something else is definitely required.

I should also try a visual prompt, I think. Maybe just something that says, 'What makes a good greeting? What makes a good goodbye?' with some pictures...

A support thread would be fantastic but I'm a pretty unreliable host, I'm afraid. As long as everyone's expectations are low, we'll be fine.

The motivader is good habitchange.com/ for this kind of thing.

You set a target phrase/greeting and then the child practices it in the home everytime the buzzer buzzes.

i.e. for compliments, greetings, questions, comments, statements.

i.e. every time the buzzer goes off, you need to comment on something the other person is doing.

i.e. oh, you're stirring your tea, that's a nice picture, your hair is very long etc.

Though it might be better to start with own comments 'Look, I'm drawing a frog', 'I like this red cup', 'I'm going into the kitchen'. etc.

I've not researched it very much because we don't have the opportunity or the gadget atm, but I imagine the beginning stages are simply to just look up and look at someone.

It's pretty important that the child is reinforced for each time the do what is asked of them. i.e. a comment gets a tick, 10 ticks get 10mins on the ipad or whatever.

I'll look into that.

MAssive fail this evening. Said before we went out that we were going to practice greetings, so I'd like him to think of something he could say after, 'Hello'. To an adult that he already knew. Cue tears. We practised just the two of us, more tears, huge resistance. In the end, I said he HAD to practice with me at home, but when were out I wanted him to just think about how it would be to do an extra friendly greeting.

I asked him just now about it and he just shrugged. Then he said, 'Its just that I'm having to do it so young, it makes me all agitated.'

Then I start to think that yes, I am setting the bar too high, what do I expect, he's never going to be the confident salesman type, is he?

TBH, I think you have to start with something very concrete. The exact words he needs to say. Once he has mastered that introduce a different word and practice that. Then practice alternating. Then introduce a 3rd.

I know asking my ds to come up with something from everything that could possible be available to him would hugely stress him out.

People without communications difficulties can reference what they say i.e depending on the context and the time of day, and how well they know the person it could range from anything from 'Good Morning, lovely day today (which it might not be)' to 'Oh hi, have you just had your hair done, it looks great!'.

I'm really interested in this Face...my DD has no DX but at 9 she finds greetings and goodbyes very hard when it comes to adults...she was selectively mute and has "traits" of Aspergers.

The other day, we were with smaller DD in soft play and the oldest...she wanted a slushy so I suggested she go up to the counter herself and ask for one.

She immediately went 0-O "I don't want one then"

Which I expected but I said "I;ll come with you then, you can ask for what you want maybe."

She came but already looked mute...got there and I had to ask "What colour do you want?" and then luckily the man adressed her and said "There's red or blue or I can do both mixed..." and I looked at her and she muttered "Blue please."

It was such a big thing. She has friends and can talk to them but her adult interaction is not so good.

Would it be at all feasable for you to kind of prompt an adult you know to "challenge" DS in a way....by asking him an easy question or greeting him in some easy way?

Star you see, I knew that if I said, 'You have to say x' he would balk. So I said, 'Here are some options. Choose one you could say.' And he did choose one - he chose 'Nice to see you again.' He totally understood the idea and just couldn't quite bring himself to do it.

Then my dad skyped and my son answered his greeting with a monosyllable, and my dad said, 'Oh, is that it? Just 'fine'?'

So I talked to my son again afterwards and said, 'You see, that was what I meant. It can come across as rude. You don't MEAN to be rude, I know that, and you know that, but some people expect something more than just 'Fine' so we have to practice it. I'm not expecting you to take charge of the situation, just have a really polite and friendly response.' He did understand and looked a bit sort of relieved that I was explaining things. But I know he is going to find it so hard to actually do it.

I also know that we have to work on personal space, as well as monologuing and dominating the conversation.

Jitney yep, I get you! I haven't quite given up on that but I usually go with him for those sorts of things still if they are new situations, which I think is totally fair enough for a child of only nine!

Oh, and I printed out some text from the NAS website about greetings and got him to read it before we went. He was a bit defensive about it and asked whether I'd written it (I could practically hear him thinking 'stupid mother with her stupid talking to people rubbish!')...so I was relieved that I could honestly answer no.

See, not to be picky but to me the phrase "nice to see you again" is such an adult one...it would almost never come out of the mouth of a 9 year old boy...or girl for that matter. It's too adult and formal...is there some kind of list of more age appropriate greetings at all?

I can guess at why your DS chose that phrase....maybe because it's a clear statement...he might genuinely feel it's nice to see someone...but not many 9 year old boys would voice this.

Communication is so complex isn't it...and tricky!

I didn't suggest that one! He came up with it all by himself. I was surprised but I thought, 'Fair enough, I said you could choose something.' I honestly didn't put words in his mouth. Maybe I'll think of something else.

I might suggest he just ask 'How are you?' as it is not about him, then.

Tony Atwood's book suggests drawing concentric circles to show how well you know people and then talk about greetings for each of these groups...

Oh lordy! I thought he'd got it from some list!

Is there a local accent in your area? I live up North and most kids are quite slangy....but DD was born "posh" and very formal too....people often comment on it. Your idea sounds good!

In retrospect, I may have thrown out a few suggestions but I did not present them to him as a list, iyswim. I'm always astonished at how literally he takes it, though.

I think I might also suggest that he does NOT have to be the one to take the conversation on to a more in-depth chat. So, if he is greeted, he should reply in kind. Does this make sense?

So, he just has to return someone else's greeting in the right way. If someone says to him, 'Hello how are you?' he should say 'Hi, I'm fine thanks, how are you?' or something along those lines, rather than just 'Fine.'. If someone just says, 'Hello' he doesn't have to say, 'Hi, how are you?' if he doesn't want to.

I think this would be a place to start - not give him the responsibility for being extra polite and friendly and 'starting', but teaching him to respond. And we'll go through a few options and the concentric circles thing too.

Once you start to try to codify these things you realise how tricky it really is. No wonder they struggle.

Oh, and accent is not a massive issue, no. I don't think. I'm quite sensitive to accents so I might have noticed...? Not sure now.

I think you're right in that teaching response to begin with is plenty to be going on with! As you say, responses are so bloody complicated anyway!

I struggle myself! I was at the school gates today and two women across the small road called across to me "Oh...are you the lady who usually does the craft table at the school fair?"

Now I didn't know the women, but I crossed the road and said "Yes but I can't now because I've got rsi in my wrists..." and then one said "I;m doing it but I'm worried I;ll not cope" so I said "Well if I see you're swamped, I will try to help out for ten minutes"

And then they turned back to one another and ignored me! I was left stood like a fool....I felt odd just walking away but they'd excluded me!

I can't imagine how confusing this would be for someone who struggles in general.

If you concentrate on the responses then you can gradually offer more and more....beginning with peers and how to respond to them as that's most important do you think?

Jitney that WAS rude! Don't bother helping...

I think I want to start with adults, actually, because I think he isn't struggling too much with his peers - they find things to talk about, they launch into conversations about Minecraft, they have their weird jokes that I can't follow, and I don't really see him interact with them enough to know where any problems lie. I get a bit overanxious that he is being bossy/rude/selfish with his peers when I think he probably isn't too bad - 9 year old boys are not renowned for their social graces generally, are they! And he is kind of rubbing along okay with them at school and on playdates, I think.

I just want him to not be so blunt (or so anxious) when an adult he doesn't know very well tries to engage him. People who are trying to be polite and friendly to ME by engaging my son - he just needs to have a way to deal with it. We also really struggle when adults come to the house - he tries to dominate their attention and take over when I'm wanting to talk, and it is just generally a bit of an issue for me. He will literally stand between me and the person I am talking to, not entirely consciously, and he wants in on the conversation because it is interesting to him.

That's interesting that he tries to dominate them but isn't that comfy with chit chat...my DD also 9 interrupts still...like a 5 year old basically. "Mum...mum...mum....mum" until I have to stop ignoring her to say "Wait!" I wonder if she just doesn't get it...like your DS.

But you're right about 9 year old boys not being renowned for social skills! My friends NT 9 year old is generally pretty silent and if he does talk it's a burst of self promotion such as "I'm allowed to choose this week's topic because I got twenty out of twenty." followed by silence.

I had a chat with him about the new approach and he was amenable. I think he was reassured that I understood what he meant by 'being too young' and he seemed happy to try this new response.

So now, if someone says, 'Hi, how are you?' he will say, 'Fine thanks, how are you?' We had a little practice this morning and he was only a bit wary of doing it with me. Bless him. It is like pulling hen's teeth.

I'll keep going with this one for a few days till I think we've got is sorted (maybe a few weeks, realisitically, as there is only so much I can focus on at once) and then decide on the next VERY CONCRETE SMALL STEP to take.

I think the way I'm going to decide is by watching out for what annoys me about the way he behaves. If it annoys me, it is likely there is something 'off'. If it is hard to put my finger on, then I need to work out exactly what is irritating about it. There's quite a lot, to be honest, but it is so hard to say what is exactly wrong about it. Tone (brusque), eye contact (none), etc all just wrong a lot of the time and it drives me mad. But if I just say, 'Look at them and smile please.' it doesn't solve it. Aaargh.

I'll get there, just need to remember to work it out myself a bit more before talking to him about it.

I might start talking in a vague way about how I find it hard to tell when people are bored and that I'm gradually learning how to stop talking when I see these signs (this is totally true).

And MAN the interrupting! It is just too much. I have two kids, both of whom see no problem with riding roughshod over what another person is saying, especially me, their dad or their sibling. I used to use the 1-2-3 Magic counting system and think I need to reintroduce that for the interrupting as it is just silly.

My son would NOT say 'Excuse me' to politely interrupt if I was talking to another adult. He just wouldn't. So we developed a system where he would come and hold my hand while waiting for me to stop talking. That worked quite well for a while and he still does it if he is a bit shy of the other adult. My dd is much worse (NT, 6).