Quick question re. eye contact

[lougle]

DD2 was taught eye contact explicitly and I got into a habit of saying 'eyes, DD2'. While I was teaching her I told her it was rude not to look at someone (slightly regretting my choice of method, to be honest, but I thought I was doing right at the time).

Now, tonight, she has told me that she prefers to look away and she feels uncomfortable to look right at someone. So I said 'well don't worry, just do what's comfortable'. She burst into tears and said 'but it's so rude.'

What should I be doing?? Should I be encouraging eye contact, even if it's not comfortable for her, because it's socially 'normal' or should I be encouraging her to do what's comfortable, even if it's not socially 'normal'?

I have no idea what I'm doing any more.

It is good if she can do a little eye contact, but not to much. It is a very tricky balance to get right, & even harder to explain. Maybe "eyes-1-2" look away and them another look when the person next speaks?

She could also look at nose/eyebrows which appears polite to the other person but won't make her so uncomfortable.

Thank you. I do feel horribly guilty. I can't believe that I've been actively teaching her eye contact for 2 years and only today it occured to me to ask where she prefers to look and why

I think it's ok to encourage it..but not ok to force it.

Ds2 isn't avoidant as such but he talks without looking at who he is talking to so it is confusing for the rest of us.. I tend to say ' can you just look at me when you start so I know it's me you are talking to?' He is ok with that... but he is 16 so has had a lot more time to learn small niceties!

He had a TA once who would demand eye contact when he spoke... that didn't end well

I don't think you feel guilty.. it may be difficult but not impossible for her, and if she can ..gently.. acquire some social norms, it will be easier later. Ds2 is MUCH better at 16 than he was at 6!

Ds does 'whole body listening' practice. He's taught that it is rude not to show you are listening but there are ways other than eye contact to show it.

If you google those exact words you'll get loads of diagrams and you can choose one to suit.

The rule is that you must do 'most' of the things, but you don't have to do them all, all of the time. You can practice them one by one and then try and do a couple together and then another.

That's really helpful.

I think I'm getting a bit of cognitive dissonance about it all.

In one sense I'm thinking 'are all these 'problems' real?' 'is she just playing us?' 'we didn't have any of these issues before.'

Then another part of my mind says 'a 6 year old doesn't know that eye contact is a social norm.' 'a 6 year old couldn't make up a 'typical ASD' response to questions about eye contact.'

Then yet another part of my mind is thinking 'what are we doing to our children?' 'why is it acceptable to force them into situations that make them feel so desperately sad?' 'no-one would expect an adult to stay in a job they absolutely detested.'

It's very confusing when you're suddenly having split thought processes.

Its confusing though because DS has no problem using eye contact when he's cross about something or really really wants something but avoids it other times. I think he finds it easier when he is talking and harder when he is listening (possibly because the combination of looking and listening / processing speech all at the same time is too much).

Yes, ds finds it easier when he is talking about something he initiated. Less so when its answering a question, and finds it very difficult when he is supposed to be listening.

I love that one zzzzz. Must try it. I have a bit of a problem with eye contact myself (have never admitted this to anyone in real life I don't think). I don't think I'm on the spectrum but there is a lot of it in the family so who knows....

I think it's fine to tell your dd that it's important but she might need some specific guidance and chance to practice with different people if she finds it hard. The thing I would have really appreciated when younger (or even now tbh) are some suggestions about where to look, how long it's normal to maintain gaze for etc, as Parietal suggests.

In situations where I know it's very important to make eye contact, eg meeting new people/job interview, I find it very hard and sometimes I just can't get it right. I open my eyes too wide/stare too hard (without realising it) and occasionally glance over their shoulder (again unintentionally). I only know I do this because they'll suddenly look round to see who/what I'm looking at, at which point I try to look at them more intently and they think "who is this mad staring woman?"...

Also, some people are harder to make eye contact with than others - I don't know why. With some people, once I start thinking about where/how to look them in the eye, I just can't.

I don't like eye contact myself either. Again, I don't think I am on the spectrum, but I think both my parents may be, and they never modelled eye contact to me, so I never realised it was important. I always looked at lips (helped my to follow the conversation), but when I started work I suddenly realised that actually it was eye contact that people expect. I have taught myself to do it now, but still can't do it for long. I am OK looking at people when they are talking, but find it very hard to maintain eye contact when I speak. I find it extremely uncomfortable.

My mum usually shuts her eyes when she speak to me. I am one up on that LOL!