ABA in school

[salondon]

My questions never stop, do they?

Background - 4y2m old non-verbal daughter with autism. Started copying sounds. No acedemics, not potty trained outside home. No peer interaction yet.
VB ABA program - 12 hrs at home+10hrs in day care.
Statement has 10hrs/week (50week/year) - LSA support. Will go up to 25hrs/week during term time when she starts reception. We are appealing to get VB/ABA on the statement
She starts school in Sept 2014. Currently we fund the training of the LSA.(They agreed to use our existing tutor)

Question - I am visitng the local infant schools and they are all saying almost the same thing to me. Most havent heard of ABA, some have. They are happy to have a child with autism in their setting. they have other kids on the spectrum and they are well-supported (as per the statement). They are not sure of the funding for ABA. They say the statements dont come with funds anymore and they now have to find the money from their own budgets.

Now, I realise statement has nothing to do with funding and that funding is between school and LEA. However, as a parent, I dont want that come septemeber, all the support my daughter gets, is pulled away because the school cannot afford it.

What would you do? How do I decide on the school if they are all saying the same thing when it comes to ABA (And where my daughter is at the moment, nothing else matters - if they will run ABA 25hrs/week with her, that is all she needs as of now - confirmed by an independent EP earlier this year)? Would you pick the nearest "good" school(the "outstanding" schools have such outstanding parent-fobbing-techniques, its eye watering)? Our local school is "good" and I know a few mums (from nursery drop offs) and they are all happy with the progress their kids are making.

There is case law which establishes that the LEA has to pay for the provision set out in a statement, whether the school has the funds or not. So if you were to win your appeal to get ABA into the statement, the LEA would pay for the training of the tutors and for the hours that they do. My dd went to a mainstream school with ABA tutors for about 5 years - the school never had anything to do with the financial side of it.

In terms of what school to go for - I would go for the one which has a head who seems as if he/she will be willing to work with your ABA consultant.

I really would not go by Ofsted. Some 'outstanding' schools are anything but outstanding for children with SEN.

If the ABA provider provides the tutors then the LA pays their invoices direct. Funds don't go through school. If you use school LSA then home ABA, supervision, training etc would be paid direct by LA and school would get money for LSA ( they may be expected pay this from delegated sen funds). Using private tutors has made life simpler but not all schools will allow this. Whatever happens the statement needs to be very specific about hours of support, training, supervision / consultation etc. DS statement is expensive so statements do still come with funding. Anything over 12 hours should come with top up funding.

I went with outstanding, but looking back I wonder if I made a mistake.

A rather un-pc pal pointed out that at the "rougher" school, he would have probably fitted in better, as there is a wider range of abilities and behaviours (about 50% on SEN register) and he might have been able to stay there longer

i agree with sickof.
I went with outstanding and too think if i gad chosen a good school in a slightly rougher area - the experience of sen children would have been greater and i too think they would be a lot more accomodating.

In fact, with the changes in the way money is allocated now you might actually be able to convince a school that it will be cheaper for them to support your ABA programme and the funding of it by the LA (like other external bolt-ones such as SALT and OT) than agree to a full-time babysitter at their own expense.

We picked a school that was very happy and willing to work with our ABA/VB programme. Which they have done, wonderfully. But that programme has of course been entirely arranged and funded by us (despite it being in the statement). And now we are going to tribunal regarding that funding the school staff have been called as witnesses by the LEA to support their position that he does not need the ABA programme. Very stressful position to be in.

Ime the most important thing is to find a school who is genuinely supportive of having ABA, and agrees to have your tutor there shadowing your dd. At this stage while its not in your statement, you can only rely on school allowing this. Re the funding, you'll probably have to continue to top-up yourself till such time when you (hopefully) get it in your statement.

You could see if they will employ your tutor(s) as the lsa, then you top up the salary, as the tutors will almost certainly cost more than a typical lsa (somewhere like £14ph vs £11ph).

If all your local schools are much of a muchness, then it's more important you choose one that really is willing to allow your tutors in, and who will support you when it comes to fighting for ABA in the statement.

thedudesmummy we were in exactly that situation two years ago. Horrific, and you have my utmost sympathy. Hence my post about finding a school who really will support ABA!

Dudes the school will have no option about being a witness if LA have called them. LAs put huge pressure on schools to be witnesses and of course pay the wages of school staff. We saw this with the nursery staff at our tribunal. Nursery person was terrified of saying anything make matters worse for nursery (LA threatened to pull all their funding for all children if they supported us). Hopefully your tribunal will see through this. If its in the statement LA should have funded it up to now then you should make a formal complaint to LA and LGO about provision in statement not being made. IPSEA have draft letter.

Salondon We chose a school with little autism expertise because we were then more likely to keep ABA (we won tribunal before we chose a school). The good thing is school has been happy to have ABA in and given them free reign. The bad thing is school have done zero for DS themselves.

I would prefer DS to be in a school that was more geared up for SEN and the teachers actually bothered with him, but ultimately the ABA is his main education and while the school side could be much better its an add on, not the main deal. Our school is good OFSTED. Traditionally had few SEN children (although had lots in last 2 years so things can change). The parents and children have all been fantastic with DS

The downside of a school with children with autism already is the LA will argue they are 'skilled up' in autism approaches and ABA not needed. Even if you win ABA it can be harder to keep it in a school which is seen as quite 'expert' in autism. Pressure to transition off ABA quickly can be intense. Also (we have found this now a new child has joined DS school) you get conflicts in advice the school are given about autism from LA and ABA which can cause problems.

Also what you consider 'well supported' and school do could be 2 different things. The children could be happily stimming all day. I wouldn't take school word for it that the children are making good progress.

I completely recommend trying to get private ABA into school. Its easier funding wise and you get to keep more control. Unlike school LSA's private ABA team can't be syphoned off by teacher to be used for other children! ABA has legally binding obligation in statement to work with DS and can't be asked to work with other children.

Our ABA provider is great and we have a good relationship with them but it also helps that we are a paying customer and can change to another provider if we want. It changes the balance of power. SAme with private SLT - all gone brilliantly. Whereas with school, LA services, NHS SLT we got a terrible service and got attacked whenever we raised any concerns and ultimately they get away with poor practice because you can't take your money elsewhere. With ABA being funded direct and not using school staff you get more control over quality / programmes etc set and better feedback (as staff also work at home)

Agnes, how does one get private ABA into the school? What does that mean?

Agnes thanks for that. Yes the VB programme has been in the statement for nine months but not a penny have we seen. Likewise when he was still at nursery (up until August) he was, according to the statement, supposed to be getting five hours of one to one support a day. Guess who arranged and fully paid for that? That's right, me! No reply to letters and emails asking about funding for this, over the past nine months.

We are focussing on the tribunal right now (hearing is next week) but after that will be going after the backdated money we believe we are owed (I have issued an invoice to them for this, but it's anyone's guess what happened to that)...

PS anyone has any experience of success in appealing to the LGO?

Dudes. You need inappropriatelyemployed who has similar experience
You do have to use council complaint process first then go LGO if not happy. Info on LGO website

Sal
We use an ABA provider which employs its own tutors and they provide a full package of consultation, supervision and tutors. We / the LA commission them to provide the ABA in the statement. Their tutors go into school. Some families just use consultant / supervision and employ indep tutors.
So what I mean by private is the tutors who work in school are not employed by school. They are employed by ABA or family and go into school on same basis as say a speech therapist. The statement just says the LA must fund 35 hours per week ABA and access to school so the school has to let ABA staff in. The school has to work with ABA staff in same way as any other visiting professional (although they go in every day).

Thedudes - did you see the Warrington thread re LGO

'LA threatened to pull all their funding for all children if they supported us'

That is really awful. I do remember our consultant though saying he was aware of LEAs threatening schools that they would pull funding for things the school needed if they were supportive of parents wrt ABA.

Did not see the Warrington thread but will have a look. In preparing for tribunal and looking through all my documnets I have even come across a letter from the LEA from April in which they said they had agreed funding for 15 hours a week of one to one at nursery. We never received anything of that. (We arranged and fully funded all the one to one support) Once tribunal is done they will be getting some further invoices from me!

Can't find Warrington LGO thread, can anyone help me find it?

Thanks all. Agnes - I dont use a single "provider" so I am hoping to either

1 - get my tutors hired (managed to do that in the early years setting for the next 10 months)
2 - get LSA's qualifications on the statement and train the LSA

1st option is my option of choice

I have a further question. I am facing a two way challenge. The schools don't know what ABA is. They want to speak to the LEA about it and I am taking the LEA to tribunal. What happens if all the schools say no to ABA.

The second challenge is to find a co-operative school. Is it worth stepping back, naming a school(which ticks most boxes), come sept let them hire the staff, be nice and hope they do ABA well? By the time my daughter starts school she would have had 1.5yrs of ABA. But even now(10 mths on) she would rather be left alone. What if she regresses with the untrained lea staff? How do you guys get your tutors in?

I didn't, had to accept an untrained TA, but am working hard to get her "ABAed".

And you had ABA on your statement isn't it? Did the statement also say the tutor should have ABA training?

How did you train them? I don't believe a single workshop can do much good. Did they have asd experience?

Yes it is on the statement but not funded thus far unfortunately. LEA has been very unresponsive. But school has been great. TA comes to all the workshops and we sent her to a two day course at Ambitious about Autism, which school gave her study leave to attend. Also our lead tutuor goes in once a week to train her (although LEA strongly opposed that in last week's tribunal, so we don't know if that will be able to continue).

Why did they oppose the lead tutor going in?