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Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on special needs.

Can I ask about ABA schools from those in the know?

13 replies

schoolquestions · 08/11/2013 13:34

I have name changed as I don't want my other nickname associated with this question for a variety of reasons! Can I ask your collective opinion of ABA schools? I ask because I was very impressed by the ABA documentary and have long had an interest in developmental psychology and am wondering if this might be a possible career path. However I've been searching online and I feel slightly uncomfortable and I don't know why. Is it likely to be because of the severe LA dislike and distrust of them?

Starlight - you mentioned ethics in regard to the ABA industry and I can completely see where you are coming from, do you think this is the same for the school set up? also can I ask why you didn't send your DS to an ABA school considering it works so well for you at home?

NewBlueCoat - can I ask which school your DD goes too?

Is there anyone else who's DC goes to an ABA school who would be happy to tell me a bit about it? By Pm if you want as I understand it may be information you don't want to share. Thank you

In my normal guise I have DS1 with cerebral palsy, he also has 'traits' of autism/aspergers. I have part of a psychology degree (unfinished) and am a trained teacher currently teaching in a unit for children with autism on a very part time basis. I love it but don't feel it meets the needs of all the children, some, yes - my Ds included, but not all.

OP posts:
sickofsocalledexperts · 08/11/2013 14:46

AbA schools are great, really caring but also effective

Will pm you

StarlightMcKenzie · 08/11/2013 14:47

Can't stop because of school run, but you could do no worse in your research than read some stuff by this guy

sickofsocalledexperts · 08/11/2013 14:55

Also I think presently ABA schools tend to focus on the more severe end, but I might be wrong but think the new Rise free school in Hounslow might be focusing on the hf end, and using ABA

StarlightMcKenzie · 08/11/2013 15:50

Ethics in ABA in the school setting are likely sound as the provision is open to scrutiny through the usual channels and hopefully by the Professional Body of ABA Practitioners.

Parents forced to source their own provision against a backdrop of suspicion, myths and misconceptions, financial struggles, desperation and poor information are more likely to be on the receiving end of poor quality ABA, which is not properly supervised or independently reviewed.

It is not the ABA that is a problem but the context in which parents are forced to get it.

StarlightMcKenzie · 08/11/2013 16:03

There are currently very few ABA schools and those that exist cater for children who would be fairly expensive to educate in other ways. No-one gives a shit if my Ds gets through school quiet and anxious with no qualifications. No one wants to spend the money early to give him a chance at getting his GCSEs. Those in charge of the education budget want him contained for as long as possible with the hopes of pushing the inevitable fall out into the adult social care budget.

If I ever complain about his lack of progress I'll get told: 'He's progressing well. He copes fine. We don't see any behaviours.' If I ask why he hasn't achieved I'll be told he can't due to his ASD.

But Ds doesn't need an ABA school. He just needs a school where staff understand ABA principles. Impossible whilst there is so much nonsense spouted about such a straightforward, effective, inexpensive method of teaching.

If you are truly interested in seeing some in action, in state run-of-the-mill special schools and mainstream then Moondog is in touch with many practitioners who are involved in this. She might give you the names of the schools to contact if you wanted to visit. I have met some of these teachers myself and not are they only incredible teachers and incredible people, they are also striking in their 'ordinaryness' and quite humble about the amazing things they are achieving and how they have battled to change hearts and minds where they work.

AgnesDiPesto · 08/11/2013 16:50

My DS does not go to an ABA school - mainly because living north of Watford there aren't any at primary level. He does have an ABA programme at home and at the ABA provider's office and 1/3 of his time is spent in a mainstream school with ABA support.

Many parents all over the country would love to send their children to ABA schools but there are hardly any - and those that do exist are almost all set up by parents. So its almost impossible to get them up and running as parents are reliant initially on fundraising etc. and you need a big enough group of dedicated parents to make this happen

A State funded free secondary school opened in Leeds last year set up by parents who all had children on ABA programmes. This is envisaged as a school across the spectrum including HF children accessing mainstream. However the cohort is dependent on which children the LA will fund. The parents were planning to fundraise to get the school open but in the end were able to jump on the free school wagon.

Treehouse in Muswell Hill started off similar way set up by parents in a library. It relied on fundraising until LAs started to send children there or enough children won places via Tribunal. It was aimed across the range - but due to funding decisions the cohort has moved to the more severe end.

Generally ABA (for children who need 1:1) is more expensive than LA special schools (higher staff ratio, higher qualified staff, more ongoing training and supervision) and so it is easier to get funding for children who are more severe and will be expensive wherever they are placed. Treehouse has much success at managing children who would otherwise be in more expensive residential placements.

So to an extent schools are defined by LA decisions and many LAs will not support indep schools and will want to place children in their own provision. Many LAs have a blanket ban on indep placements and every single parent has to go to tribunal to get one. My LA has a blanket ban on funding ABA even though none of the staff know anything about it. You have to go to tribunal and they fight you bitterly to the end to prevent it.

The LA EP actually recommended ABA having seen how well my son was doing with it, as did SLT. Both were made to change their evidence by SEN officers. At Tribunal we won a package of support ten times the provision the LA intended to pay. So the reasons against ABA are entirely financial. As Star says it will cost their adult social care budget dear in years to come. But LA staff are not very good at seeing beyond their own budget.

Having spoken to parents at both Lighthouse and Treehouse I think the schools develop their own curriculum over time. They are subject to OFSTED etc so are very highly scrutinised. ABA providers also will develop their own particular 'brand' of ABA. There are good and not so good private providers.

While I would not credit OFSTED with knowing much about SN their reports of Treehouse, Treetops etc give good - excellent ratings. There was a State primary school in Wales (Westwood) which had an ABA unit which also got great OFSTED rating but the LA shut it down a year or so ago for financial reasons.

Some good books to read are Sense and Nonsense. This is by USA provider with offices worldwide including Uk and explains the evidence base for ABA and the alternatives. In USA they work with many school districts and worldwide support children in mainstream. AP is involved in Lighthouse School (the parents who set it up all had children on AP programmes). Also by AP Its time for school which talks about setting up ABA classrooms or using ABA in mainstream schools.

You will also find ABA is used extensively in adult services. its somewhat ironic that having denied children access to ABA when they were young, when all else has failed many adult social care providers use behavioural methods.

I've read a lot of tribunal reports via voluntary work and its uncanny how when a child has been repeatedly failed and heading for residential suddenly the experts all start recommending ABA.

Keith Duffy (of boyzone fame) helped set up several ABA schools in Southern Ireland but again they have struggled to get LA financial support.

In terms of a career you should probably realise most of these schools are pretty precarious financially. But you would find the level of training and expertise and support to you as a teacher much higher quality than LA special school.

StarlightMcKenzie · 08/11/2013 17:00

I dunno. The recent research showed that ABA cost no more once everything was taken into account, than The eclectic approach and was more effective.

It is worth pointing out that we asked for an ABA programme run by a qualified teacher with a masters in Autism, with degree-educated and ABA trained 1:1s for the cost of £23k. The LA threw so much alternative provision at us that the tribunal decided in their favour, to the cost of £33k.

It isn't about money IMO.

AgnesDiPesto · 08/11/2013 17:53

We couldn't get an ABA programme for anything like £23k. The 48 week a year nature of our programme adds a considerable sum. Plus being rural.

A place at Treehouse is something like £70k.

Children needing 2:1 support probably be even more.

It does vary some HF / able children could get by with fewer hours / fewer weeks per year.

But I accept we have a provider who has an American model of consultant - supervisor - tutors, all the tutors are degree educated and they have premises - and masses of training. It is more like a mini intervention centre / teacher training college of ABA really. The training, premises and expertise all have to be funded from the fees so they are far higher than freelancers.

But yes if you added to the eclectic model the cost of the LA buildings, heating, cleaners, training, recruitment, admin staff then our ABA programme would come out cheaper. But of course that is never going to happen as these are all 'nil cost'!

StarlightMcKenzie · 08/11/2013 18:05

Programme:

£15 per tutor (x2) for 15 hours a week each for 40 weeks (10 days overlap for workshops) = £18,000

Qualified Teacher Consultant, 10 visits at £300 each (then) = £3,000

SALT half termly at £100 per visit = £600
OT half termly at £100 per visit = £600

Admin and expenses: = £800

Total = £23,000

Cheap, but beyond the means of most parents.

StarlightMcKenzie · 08/11/2013 18:07

I suppose to be fair we should have added the AWPU figure as our programme was supposed to have taken place in a mainstream school, so £3-4k on top.

StarlightMcKenzie · 08/11/2013 18:09

We lost our tribunal. LA said our programme was nothing more than parents parenting their child and we'd do it anyway without them funding it. They said ABA was bad. They also said they do it Confused. They also said the words eclectic and holistic a lot.

StarlightMcKenzie · 08/11/2013 18:17

Anyway Agnes, you can SEE how it can be done cheaply can't you, though our model won't have been right for all children and we were going for modest adequate. DS would have made more progress with more hours and more days and more Consultant visits.

He didn't get anything. A year on the eclectic model produced evidence via professional opinion that he'd progressed well but the data showed he gained no skills in a year with deteriorated behaviour. In fact the little data they showed with pride could be matched with data and video I supplied that showed the skills they busted a gut to teach him, he already had before he went there. That kind of evidence doesn't make you popular.

AgnesDiPesto · 08/11/2013 21:15

Yes we could run a smaller programme and it would be better than eclectic. Well lets face it our £400 a month supervisor only DIY programme was better than eclectic.

If we were in London we could get decent people for £15 but there are no ABA trained people round here. Plus the travel factor to get to us. I know someone who tried to advertise to train people in ABA and got zero responses.

Our supervision and consultancy is about 3x that and to be honest we do need that because DS has needs in so many areas. And he moves through targets quite fast / things change all the time with him.

Also dealing with school and meetings add on costs. Thats quite a drain on supervisor time tbh. I resent how much time we have to spend from supervision dealing with school - not much of which is productive.

And we have team meetings where we pay for 3 tutors and a supervisor in a room at a time. But those are really useful and productive.

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